However, I own the domain, and now he wants it back. He had some guy call me wanting the domain transferred to him. I told him no, and he asked if they could buy it from me. I told him it was not for sale at any price.
Am I within my rights as the domain owner to hold out on it?
Technically you could probably put the entire website back up on the domain and run it as your own - as you should have a statement in your terms and conditions that rights in any software you produce do not pass to the client until full payment has been received.
Am I within my rights as the domain owner to hold out on it?
I told him it was not for sale at any price.
Just make sure the price is greater than the original amount you sued him for, plus any court expenses, plus a more than reasonable amount for your time/effort. Plus an extra amount for the spite. :)
[edited by: Webwork at 4:34 pm (utc) on April 23, 2009]
My response was "YAY"
I just got an email from him threatening to sue me if I do not turn over the domain by this Monday
I am not posting any relevant info or domain names
Well . . as someone who lawyers a bit I might view what you posted thusfar as enough to identify you . . unless it's all a fabrication, such as you didn't get the email you described, you didn't sue him and lose, he didn't have a friend contact you . . .
Nice fact trail, lots of clues for anyone to find in this public forum.
Webwork, Esq. (My other day job)
These things have a way of sorting themselves out. I'm just pointing out how the sorting occurs.
Depending on your jurisdiction and local procedural court rules and judicial principles/practices, if your "friend" did not counter-sue for possession/control of the domain, (apparently not) he may be SOL under some local version of "mandatory joinder of issues" or "single controversy" (single lawsuit to settle all troubles) rules.
There are always exceptions, but like cans of worms, unless you open yourself to the granting of an exception by post-action admission, by statements that contradict sworn testimony or pleadings, by "new evidence", etc. you likely are on safe ground.
OTOH, if you keep digging you just might unearth some worms. :P
[edited by: Webwork at 5:55 pm (utc) on April 23, 2009]
I bought a domain name of someone just for spite (it was her actual name.com)and she tried to get me to get rid of it and she failed. I still lease it today! [Begin Evil Laugh Here.......lololololololol)
Slinger, for you we'll allow a 1-off for the evil laugh-effects, but really - truthfully - we like to maintain a professional culture in the forum. Doing things "for spite" is pretty far down the scale of professional conduct.
Bad karma also.
Just so we're all clear, there are good reasons and bad ones for acts we take in our roles as service providers. As long as I'm the moderator here, I'm sorry to say to those who advocate "other darker paths", we're simply not into it. Posts advocating dubious motives, dubious behavior, etc. are routinely edited or removed. And yeah, I get that sometimes a screwing leaves one wanting to return the favor, and not getting paid for an honest day's work sure has that "getting screwed feeling". Still, the OP had his day in court. There is likely a lesson to be learned and the price of the lesson included not getting paid. Been there. Done that. Not everyone is to be trusted.
And yeah, sometimes I just wanna reach out and . . . do bad things too. But, as someone who has acted as an attorney for 27+ years, I can solidly affirm that spiteful behavior/attitudes and vengeful ways tend to be the hallmark of careers and lives in decline. Invariably you are better off taking the high ground. Let the jerks live their jerk lives. Don't mirror them. Walk away and let them sink on their own. Move on. Move on and upwards.
And I am NOT saying the OP or you are jerks. What's good for the goose may be good for the gander. No written agreement -> no payment? No written agreement - no domain transfer. Sounds fair.
Slinger, give the girl her domain. Move on. Move up. If she's a no-good it will come back to her in ways neither you nor she can imagine.
[edited by: Webwork at 6:25 pm (utc) on April 23, 2009]
Slinger is probably mostly a nice guy . . like most of us are . . 'cept sometimes. Me too.
The only one who is really nice all the time is Buckworks, my co-mod.
Then again, there was that time when she broke the sound barrier driving a Mustang convertible . . .
Sorry to read about your hardship MP. A pre-trial consult might have been helpful. There are certain rules than can apply to help someone succeed where there isn't a written contract. Varies by facts, jurisdiction, etc.
Am I within my rights as the domain owner to hold out on it?
One thing I learned is that unless any specific, applicable law says so, rights
are only as good as one's ability to enforce them, especially if others do not
agree with it.
However, I'll tell you that whoever is the domain's listed registrant and paid
for it is considered by its registrar to be its current owner. OTOH, that can
always be challenged in a court of competent jurisdiction.
It's the other party's burden to demonstrate their claims. Unfortunately you'll
have to defend yours if you're eventually called upon to do so, and if they're
able to show theirs to possibly the judge's satisfaction.
David
If you use the website/domain-name in a manner that could be construed as deliberately damaging, you may fall foul of the law and/or terms of service of the host. It's always better to take a profit where possible rather than be obstinate for the sake of revenge.
I once inquired about purchasing a trademark from a company that wasn't using it. They set a price I thought unreasonable and I said so. However, they then threatened to sue me for their costs because they jumped the gun and instructed lawyers to begin the transfer. Some people are idiotic and like to make threats!
Kaled.
Say he owed ya 3,000.00 add another 2,000 for time spent and offer him the domain name for 5,000.00 Add no negotiating the price; final and only offer you will offer.
You get your money and rid of him. If he refuses you made him a offer.
Also add since you have no need for the domain name you are putting it up for PRIVATE auction if he doesn't meet your offer.
That should stir something and since there are some hard feelings here I would set up (if he takes the offer) to do the sale at a bank, attorney's office were the CERTIFIED CHECK and domain transfer are executated.
It shouldn't be too hard to find some of those businesses, especially if he has competitors.
Notify as many of his stiffed creditors and competitors as you can than you're going to hold a public auction for the domain. Make sure it's "public" in the sense that it's at a physical location where the deadbeat actually has to sit in a room full of people he's ticked off.
Good chance at least one of them will be more than willing to run the price up beyond the willingness/ability to pay of the guy who stiffed you.
The event is likely to get you some cash in the pocket, and serve as a public flogging of the guy who stiffed you.
And in the meantime, if the domain name is tied to his business/personal name, make sure your 401 redirect it to a BBB site of some variety.
Yes, I was evil in a different life.
It is one thing if it is a domain name that is pretty general or not trademarked. But if it is trademarked, a whole other set of rules apply to the domain.
I would give him the domain name if he pays what he owes you, plus legal fees and interest, and not one minute before.
I did a website for a "friend" on a verbal agreement, and he did not meet his part of the agreement. I sued him to collect what he owed me, and I lost because we did not have a written contract.However, I own the domain, and now he wants it back. He had some guy call me wanting the domain transferred to him. I told him no, and he asked if they could buy it from me. I told him it was not for sale at any price.
Am I within my rights as the domain owner to hold out on it?
I'm normally one for standing on principle [at all costs] but I also believe OJ got away with murder... the ex-friend already cost you "twice"... and ego usually makes things grow out of proportion.
What is the domain worth to you?
From what I gather in your response... "$10.00/year"
What is it worth the the ex-friend?
You sued to get what you were owed... now you don't want it?
You'd rather the headache of going to court "again" at all costs to do what?
"Stick it to 'em"?
Better make sure you have the "dream team" because going to court is rarely about right or wrong... the better story from the better attorney is where you should place the bet.
Be that as it may... sometimes "doing to right thing" is better than standing on principle. IMHO.
The worst you can do to others isn't to give them a bad treatment, but to trick them into doing something bad. This dude played an ugly trick on you. Do not allow him to perform a worse one by making you behave like the spiteful person that you are not.
But I have to say that there is something in grelmar's idea which appeals to me...
-I kindly request that you stop saying "verbal agreement" when you really want to be saying "oral agreement." A verbal agreement is simply an agreement involving words...
-This may be moot for you now, but I feel that it needs to be addressed. There is nothing wrong with oral agreements, they are enforceable. However, you must be able to prove the existence of the oral agreement. Were there no emails, partial payments, invoices, etc that you could have used in court to show that there was an agreement? Was there any acknowledgement of any kind that was in writing?
-But anyway, see this as a lesson: get things in writing, even from friends.
-You are most likely safe from a future lawsuit regarding this particular incident, as claim preclusion will probably bar him from bringing his claim since his claim would involve the same transaction/occurrence.
You might not be able to afford a lawyer, but there are legal aid organizations that might be of benefit IF the other fellow decides to pursue.
Be on top of it, of course, but there is, usually, a bit of time available (due to court schedules if nothing else) to prepare.
While this forum is NOT a venue for legal advice there have been many good suggestions made about possible responses. And, as you have discovered, even if you lose a court case the world continues to spin, or even if you win...
Most likely the matter has already been settled in your original lawsuit. He denied the contract, therefore he can't come back against you on that same topic.
That's what I thought too when reading this thread. A court has already decided that there was no contract between the two parties. Therefore, it seems like a non-starter. Domain's yours.
That's what I thought too when reading this thread. A court has already decided that there was no contract between the two parties. Therefore, it seems like a non-starter. Domain's yours.
Not if he had trademarked the name of the domain before the domain was purchased (say xyz trademarked, then bought xyz.com)
If you are going to ask for money for the domain, be sure to do it over the phone. So far no paper trail, so don't put one out that can hurt you.
Also, I agree with webwork, you shouldn't have made this post. When dealing with courts, the less info you put out, the better, since that give less things that can be twisted.
It sounds like your angry that you were ripped off, which if you were is fair enough.
However, from my experience the best thing you can do now is to give him the domain and walk away. Nothing negative you do now is going to produce a positive result.
If it's a choice between recouping costs and betting the farm, you're better off just getting your money back and letting it go, why let him cost you health and mental well-being too?
