I am thinking of registering a name that is 4 words long.
apple, orange, banana, pear.
I'm thinking of registering appleorangebananapear.com AND apple-orange-banana-pear.com.
Q. Do people prefer a name with or without hyphens?
cheers
Hyphenated version is easier to read, un-hyphenated version is easier to type.
Different users will tend to prefer one or the other so you can't afford to miss anyone.
Stu is right - go for both. Most people type in compound words, but some people and search engines do think in hyphens.
Josh
In that case - 4 words probably is too long with or without hyphens. If you intend to use this with email in my experience (we have only one hyphen in our name), it takes extra effort to ensure that people get the hyphen correct when you are explaining it to them verbally. If we had known then what we know now - it would be without a hyphen.
If you must use hyphens - register with & without as suggested.
not-so-sure.org
often-signals-spammy-site.biz
given-choice-choose-brand.co.uk
If I were running an SE, I would seriously discount newly registered URLs with multiple hyphens. People only register these things for one reason.
What worked 2 years ago may not work today. I think there is staying power in a branded domain name, so go with branding if you plan to be in it for the long haul.
I just checked a niche I operate in and there was only one hyphenated domain in the top 20. That was my site, and it has had the single hyphen since 1998 or 1999. It is not #4 because of the hyphen - of that I can assure you. Makes me wonder if it would pop up a spot or two if I used the non-hyphen domain, which I also own now.
A quick peek for "cheap tickets" (the kind of search that used to have really-long-keyword-stuffed-domains-about-cheap-tickets.com) doesn't show a single hyphenated domain in the top 20.
Both searches were done on G
WBF
You should register both. Choose the one without hyphens for the main site and redirect the hypenated ip to that. IMHO
If I were running an SE, I would seriously discount newly registered URLs with multiple hyphens.
That domains without hyphens would be better is primarily a matter of direct navigation, or if you advertise on traditonal media, but on the net hyphens are fine, imo.
domains without hyphens would be better is primarily a matter of direct navigation, or if you advertise on traditonal media, but on the net hyphens are fine
Pretty well sums the issue up.
Whether there's an added .5 point out of 100 point search engine ranking benefit to "separate words" is an issue and a fact that is likely to vary from year to year and search engine to search engine.
My money, for the long haul, is bet on the outcome that hyphens won't matter to SEs. However, what you see in the SERPs when it comes to word-word-word-word domains is not people concerned about the long haul.
Different strokes for different folks at different moments in different search engines.
Bottom line: Diversify.
If the four words make up an actual key-phrase (that people search for)
And there is the rub.
Sites built for searches are vulnerable.
Notice that I said "sites". Pages built for searches may come and go, but the site needs to be a constant (if one is in it for the long haul).
www.mybrand.com/fruits/oranges.htm is a far cry from www.apples-oranges-mango-kumquats-limes-to-go.com, or, www.applesorangesmangokumqatslimestogo.com
Are you building for your visitors or for the SE's? The SE's will betray you sooner or later, but a loyal visitor/customer might just be forever.
WBF
Am I allowed to post a URL? I've got a marvelous example of keyword rich domain, which I don't think is spam, because it exactly describes what the company does.
Even if a domain is spammy, I don't think that's enough to get it penalized - it's probably just a warning signal that the site could be spam. If several of such signals combine, then a search engine's spam detection team will go and take a look at the site.
but I don't see how the hyphens make a difference.
Hyphens do make a difference. Search engines especially Google do not like hyphenated domains, and do indeed see them as an attempt to spam.
If you are going to use hyphens then make sure that the domain doesn't have more than one hyphen. I personally would opt for a .ws before i buy a hyphenated domain.
Another good point was made earlier, that if you need to hyphenate that much then you probably have too long of a url.
because so many domains are gone? In many cases these are the best option. It doesnt mean spam and they are easier to read.
>Hyphens do make a difference. Search engines especially Google do not like hyphenated domains, and do indeed see them as an attempt to spam.
You do not know that and there is a ton of hypenated domains sitting atop the Google serps that are not spam and are not hurt by the hyphens.
because so many domains are gone? In many cases these are the best option. It doesnt mean spam and they are easier to read.
Since when? I picked up a 7 letter .com domain a little over a month ago that captures the site perfectly. Brandable? Definitely. Type in traffic? Probably not much, but maybe a wee bit since it is a possible typo.
A brick and mortar coffee drive through is not going to name themselves "Hot-Espresso-To-Go". But, a web site could name itself "cofeenut.com" (which is available as I write this - and is only a slight mispelling. Have at it)
WBF
Just because a hyphenated domain is available does not mean that there won't be any legal consequences. I would make sure that the non-hyphenated version is not in use and I'd also make sure there were no trademarks registered with the name operating in the same industry.
If you absolutely have to have that hyphenated version, and the non-hyphenated version is not in use, have you thought about making an offer?
Just a couple of things to think about.
No hyphens! They are a usability nightmare. Very difficult to brand. Just like sub-domains. People just are not used to entering a hyphen in a domain name. Not the average surfer anyway. :)
In my *pretty competitive* niche, the top 3 spots on Google have multiple *word* domains. Top 2 are multiple keyword domains.
2 of the first 10 are virtual domains (one government site, one is *****.yahoo.com)
Only 2 are clearly *single word* domains .. and both are keywords.
All of the Page 2 results have multiple keyword domains.
Not necessarily. In the same example cited above, #2 is hyphenated. Keyword-keywordkeyword.com.
BTW, *I* consider the site as SPAM (it's a link directory), but Google apparently likes it.
There are of course always sites that slip through the algo, and show up on the first page. For one of my keywords which I am desperately trying to break into top 30 in Google, the third site in the SERPs is a domain with nothing on there (not even parked). Go figure.
Generally, hyphenated domains are considered to be spammy. Of course one hyphen should really be fine, but once you go past one, then it gets into shady territory.
[edited by: Webwork at 2:15 pm (utc) on Feb. 15, 2006]
[edit reason] Charter [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]
Of all the arrogant, highhanded tricks Google has pulled, this one is really at the top. I can think of good reasons why someone would use hyphens in a domain name, other than for an SEO advantage.
For example, several years ago, I created a site for a friend of mine who had a small shop in a small town. Let's say it was called My Business Name. She named it after a classic book in her field. Well, mybusinessname.com and .net were taken, so I got the hyphenated version for her. It's been like that for five years, and I have no intention of changing it. She doesn't get much traffic, but either way, using the unhyphenated version is not an option.
Another situation would be when someone has a three-word name and the middle word is an acronym. Let's say you have a site that explains the ins and outs of the GNU license and you call it Public GNU Info. For human consumption you'd probably write it PublicGNUInfo.com, which at first glance might appear to be Public GNUI nfo. Here's a case where hyphens would simplify the whole matter.
I can see hyphenated names being on a par with unhyphenated ones, but to penalize them is just stupid.
[edited by: Webwork at 12:48 pm (utc) on Mar. 15, 2006]
Matt Cutts Said,
March 7, 2006 @ 8:30 pmWe don’t use hyphens as a spam signal.
the-sky-is-falling.com
While it is turned off now you can check the whois.
While I agree multi hyphenated domains look spammier initially, if a major trusted brand, like Disney, uses hyphens the spam factor goes away.
if you get a hyphenated one, Google and other SEs will think you got it to spam.
If true that wouldn't bode well for the World Tourism Organization, a/k/a www.World-Tourism.org:
"The World Tourism Organization (UNWTO/OMT), a specialized agency of the United Nations, is the leading international organization in the field of tourism."
[google.com...]
Looks like www.World-Tourism.org website is ranking #1 amongst 392,000,000 results. Not bad for a hyphenated domain.
What does this mean for hyphenated domain names?
Probably not much. 1 hyphen does not make for definitive evidence of an intent to exploit a search engine's ranking quirks.
3 or 4 hyphens? Maybe . . no, highly likely, absent evidence of an associated UN Charter. :)
FWIW, here's my hyphenated domain strategy:
1. IF the 2 word domain is a very high search results count for an "exact match" AND IF the 2 word phrase is very commercial AND IF the phrase relates to some activity that is very much an online activity THEN I'll seek to acquire the domain. If in the aftermarket I'll likely value it at 1-10% +/- of the value of the non-hyphenated generic industry descriptive 2 word phrase. These are 2 word phrase domains such as "online abcxyz" or "internet abcxyz" or "web-abcxyz", with results in the millions. Some exceptions may apply for lower search result counts.
2. I may pick up the non-hyphenated AND hyphenated version of domains that I intend to develop, just to guard my flank. Indeed, if the promotion of the website will be exclusively online I may choose to develop the hyphenated version and redirect the non-hyphenated version - on a case my case basis.
3. I don't think I'm the registrant of any domain with more than 1 hyphen, although there are some industry grade phrases for which 3 word domains make sense (and make cents, I'm sure).
[edited by: Webwork at 3:06 pm (utc) on Mar. 8, 2006]
If it is all mashed together in one compound word then it is seen as one long word
Not anymore - the SE's have moved on quite a bit in the last year or two.
TJ
From Matt's blog:Matt Cutts Said,
March 7, 2006 @ 8:30 pmWe don’t use hyphens as a spam signal.
not if it is just one hyphen; but once you start having 3 or 4, then the domain becomes clearly suspect, because there are very few times where you'd want a long domain like that if you are not trying to spam the URL.
