I own a few domains for some years, one of which is a short generic word in another language, but in English it was a made-up word at the time.
Some time after I registered this domain, I received a letter from an agent seeking to buy the domain on behalf of his client, which is a large corporation in a core, mass-market field and which was about to start up a new company/business with this exact name. This was in 2000. They offered $2000 which I declined, as I was caught up in the false exhilaration of e-commerce and the dot com hype at the time.
A year or so later I found out that a company had indeed been created with the exact same name of my domain and this company has been trading since then, using alternatives to their company name for their web site(s), but nothing as good or easy to use/remember as the domain I have.
I did receive some offers since 2000 but mainly minor ones and nothing serious.
Recently, I received renewed interest from someone at this same company, initially offering $1500, but when I advised them that the minimum offer I would consider was $15000, they made an offer within days for this minimum amount.
This was a few weeks ago and I haven't responded.
The question I am toying with is - do I sell now at this price, or do I wait to receive a larger offer from this company which of course may never come?
The domain is parked but earns almost zero in revenue. The landing page does not feature any competing links or products/services that this company trades is and I am not using my domain to divert customers away (who wouldn't be consumer/general public) from their site.
I don't think I will get a large offer from anyone else as the name is effectively made up and there is now already a company with this name which they will have undoubtedly registered across the world or Europe which is where they are located.
Any advice as to what you think I should do would be appreciated.
There are no 'rules' - and don't let anyone tell you different.
In your case, the value to them is only conceivable going to be exceeded by one of their rivals; as the site itself is not contibuting. In practice, a rival would be unlikely to pay so much, knowing they could end up in court if they fail to surrender the name.
And you, too, could end up in court. You've stated your minimum, and they've agreed. Not binding in itself, but if you refuse to deal, and they take it to court, your failure to sell could be made to look like domain squatting. You'd probably get your original price, but once legal fees were taken into account, you'd probably out of pocket, say, $20,000.
Now, that is a 'worse case scenario' - it really, really, depends on their rights to the name - but as you are not using it (and never have), even a fairly weak case for them looks a lot stronger.
The only hope I see for you is the number of characters in the name; you say short - but not how short. Any "very short" name that is a word (rather than r2jk.com etc), could be argued to have a pretty good value.
But I'd say "sell" - and do not use an online dealer or escrow; deal direct or through lawyers; so long as you get it all in writing (on paper) in advance, you don't need a bunch of middlemen, if it's a legitimate corp. in your country. No sense giving all your profit to sharks.
but when I advised them that the minimum offer I would consider was $15000, they made an offer within days for this minimum amount.
To me that reads that you wouldn't sell unless your minimum expectation was met and they accepted your proposition.
We could argue all day about the import of "consider". In context I might call it a weasel word - a word that is sufficiently ambiguous that one coulc 'weasel out' of an 'understanding that is mean X, not Y' - but in context it sure looks like you said "the least I'll take is $15,000" and they agreed.
Opportunity doesn't always knock twice, much less a third time. Make a choice and be happy. What your puchased for <$100 you are poised to sell for $15,000. A lottery ticket isn't a winner until it's cashed in and even winning lottery tickets become losers if not cashed in within 1 year of "winning".
Good luck. I'd take the high road on this. Your communication had the flavor of offering to make a deal if they hit your target. Sure, we'd all like to "make more" but at a certain point the person on the other side begins to feel like they are having their chain yanked and may act accordingly.
When I informed the company's contact of the minimum bid amount, I did not say it in such a way, that I would sell at the minimum bid amount.
Anyone can see the min amount for the domain on the homepage.
I also say that if they don't ehar from me within a couple of weeks, that their offer was no aceptable.
I have not said anything like, "Hey, I'll sell at $XX amount".
Although this company is likely to be the only buyer, they have to consider that someone else may also buy it to create a site unconnected to the business they are in and ergo they will have to begin the process of trying to get it from any new buyer, form whom the willingness to sell is unknown.
I know money in hand is worth more than hope, but how could a company take the name from me if I am not using the name in bad faith and it was created before they existed?
The domain is 6 letters long and a .com
[edited by: Big_Monkey at 5:03 pm (utc) on April 17, 2007]
You've had the domain for something like 7 years with no other offers anywhere near the 15k and it is producing virtually no income for you on it's own.
The domain is only worth what someone is willing to pay and it sounds like they are the only natural buyer for the domain. It's a win/win for everyone involved.
Sell it and enjoy the cash.
It really is most unlikley, in the circumstances, that they will increase their offer. Why would they? Would you?
They are much more likely to
(a) walk away, on the basis that whatever they say, you'll push for more or
(b) consider other options.
<Snip>
[edited by: Webwork at 10:52 am (utc) on April 26, 2007]
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This is not the case.
A minimum offer does not imply automatic acceptance. Rather, it is a minimum starting point for negotiations as I have always understood it. Therefore, I am not obliged to sell at the minimum offer, nor enter a counter offer if I don't want to or if I feel that a higher offer could be made. That is for me to determine and not anyone else.
[edited by: Big_Monkey at 4:39 am (utc) on April 18, 2007]
I am seeking opinion not judgement which is what you are dishing up. I think you should understand the difference between the two and also refrain from being uppity and aggressive, which you have no reason or right to be.
There is no indication that i am not looking for advice so I have no idea where your last sentence came from.
I was told this was a good site to find helpful information on but I am wondering if that is true with some of the responses I have receievd.
Even then, if only one meets the minimum, they buy it for that.
Think about even Ebay works this way. You can set a minimum, and it COULD go higher, but if they meet it, you sell.
You should accept your own offer. You thought it was great when you made it.
My thoughts are that perhaps there is something brewing which would make having this domain name much more important now - perhaps expansion, a merger, etc.
Please note that the landing page shows a minimum bid not a minimum price. There is a difference.
"You should accept your own offer. You thought it was great when you made it."
The minimum bid amount was set to deter time-wasters ("How much..."?) and those seeking to buy it for $100 or so. You can't say what I thought about the minimum bid without any information to form that deducment, which you don't have. Is it really great? Is $2m that was once offered for for e-buy.com (which was turned down) greater? Its not easy to say, is it.
The final selling price, is as has already been exressed, is what someone is willing to pay for it and we cannot know in advance if this offer is the limit for this domain.
If they need the domain they would contact you again with either a higher offer or via "other options" as they are being mentioned. Life is about taking risk and good life is about taking calculated risk with good risk management planning. I guess you can plan on how you are going to minimise the risk if they happen to pursue the legal options. I would certainly un-park that page and make a meaningful and non-competitive, non-commercial small website just in order to provide more security to my rights over the domain name in question.
The question I am toying with is - do I sell now at this price, or do I wait to receive a larger offer from this company which of course may never come? - -> The domain is parked but earns almost zero in revenue. - ->I don't think I will get a large offer from anyone else as the name is effectively made up and there is now already a company with this name which they will have undoubtedly registered across the world or Europe which is where they are located.
They decide "The heck with him/her. We'll use WordInc.com. If he ever attempts to profit off our business name (assuming it's 'made up', not generic) we'll sue him." Since it makes no money parked and might only make money trading off the real business's unique, non-generic business name you won't find a traffic buyer given recent trends in WIPO decisions since the only money source from parking would be to target the ocmpany's business/product.
Frankly, there are legal issues that cannot be resolved in this forum, that may be fatal to your strategy. We can't and won't go any further on "the legal issue". It will be fruitless in any event.
It appears you can afford to "not take the money". If you have the wherewithal to walk away from this sum of money than you can do whatever you wish. If the receipt of these funds will do you or your family some serious good and you have no other 'irons in the fire' (potential deals then you may be playhing a game of chance with funds you cannot afford to lose.
There is a certain "lottery mentality" that goes along with domaining. Poor folk should take the money if it's a one time deal - like this one appears to be. Rich folk just don't care, one way or the other, and will take the money based upon practical and rational ideas or impulse or whatever. It just doesn't matter. Then we have the folks who fall in between rich and poor. My guess is that you fall "in between". You're trying to guess "Will they offer more or will they sand bag me?" We don't know. You don't know. They either know or not. The only thing that appears known is that they made an offer of $$,$$$.
You either take the money and choose to be happy with the outcome, and don't look back, or you take your chances and live with the outcome, which will either be a) more money; or, b) no money at all.
Let me ask you this: If you were walking on the beach at night, by yourself, and a $100.00 bill came blowing down the sand, with no one else chasing it and no one in sight, would you pick it up and be happy? I would. So, there's something to be said for having money that you didn't have, especially money that arrives by good fortune versus hard work. To me, it sounds like this domain is a matter of good fortune, not hard work, so be mindful of what may be happening. The universe - or karma - or whatever force you chose might be attempting to hand you an unmerited gift. Clearly this isn't the average, rationale, cold and calculating business analysis, but sometimes things are just a matter of chance or luck or . .? So, without being entirely calculating, you might just step back, thank heaven or your ancestors or whatever, and take the gift - gratefully.
A bird in the gand is worth two in the bush? Sure. You have $$,$$$. You have now placed all that money on "red" at the roulette table. For some of us, sometimes, the excitement of the action is what matters. Until black comes up. But you will still have a great story. Will a good story be enough?
Be happy "as is" (take the offer). Red comes up, you double your money. Black comes up, you lose it all. We don't have the answer. The closest I can come to "an answer" is to ask: "Do you have a big enough bankroll that this money doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things OR will having this money in the bank improve your chances in the larger game of chance called life? Could you 'double your money' IF you took this money and applied your skill, intelligence and this money to some other project?" In other words, could you double your money in some other way - than by simply taking on a chance that 'red will come up'?
If all you would do with the money is buy trinkets then roll the dice, spin the wheel, take you chances. If the money offered would change the course of your life then take the money, you have already "won the lottery". You may not get another chance like this any time soon.
I've asked several questions, to which I don't expect you to post an answer here, for a reason. Sometimes finding the right question to ask one's self - the question that evokes an "Ahhhhh . . . yes . . " response - is the better approach to issue resolution, especially where we don't know all the facts.
[edited by: Webwork at 3:07 pm (utc) on April 18, 2007]
Remember $15K is their second offer, it's not the starting point. $1500 is the starting point. What's the likelihood you'll ever get an offer like that again? Seriously, it took 7 years to get an offer that's almost reasonable to you. Take it.
[edited by: engine at 8:57 am (utc) on April 22, 2007]
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Given that you have had the domain for years and never had any serious offer besides from this company, I think it is completely unrealistic to expect any more from them (or anyone else). Take the money and sell- it's apparently a win-win situation for all involved.
Otherwise, if you come back at them and tell them your previous "minimum bid" wasn't high enough, you are going to lose serious credibility. They will probably assume (rightly) that you are just toying with them and every single higher "minimum bid" that you state will also turn out to be not high enough.
You have offered a minimum bid and they accepted it. To reneg now is going to lose credibility for you if/when they decide to take legal action to get the domain.
You'd better hope they don't play by your rules.
Good Luck! :)
If you accept the offer now, you have a 100% chance of making 15,000.
If you don't sell now, you may be labeled a squatter and have a significant chance (greater than 0 at least) of making $0, which in your case is like losing 15K + investment income since that probability is currently 100%.
If you try to sell in ten years, you would logically have to get over 30K to break even with the current offer just to make up for the lost opportunity cost of not accepting and investing the 15K now.
[edited by: Jane_Doe at 6:54 pm (utc) on April 18, 2007]
Although I am not queuing up for the soup kitchens, I won't say what this level of money means or doesn't mean to me, as it is beside the point. Making financial decisions on the value of something based on your own financial circumstances is nearly always going to lead to you making the wrong decisions. I have learnt this through tough experience.
The cost of retaining this domain name is effectively zero, so there is no loss if I do not accept the offer now. Those who think that I am effectively losing what has been offered could be right, but perhaps they are wrong. There are several unanswered questions, the most interesting of which is why the approach was made from this company now? I have received several offers in the past from other people too, so we cannot discount another party from bidding in the future for something unrelated to the subject company’s business – the name IS a made up word using English characters but has no meaning in English.
We must also consider the amount of time that has passed without any legal action from the company in question, which suggests that there isn't going to be any.
Perhaps a higher offer will come, perhaps not. We shall see.
[edited by: Webwork at 2:11 pm (utc) on April 19, 2007]
[edit reason] Charter [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]
the most interesting of which is why the approach was made from this company now?
the name IS a made up word using English characters but has no meaning in English.
I don't always agree with Webwork but I think you'd be wise to trust him on this one.
If you don't sell now, you may be labeled a squatter
From my personal experience with domain names - there is a grain of truth to this, we wanted a domain name that really has very little value and the owner kept pumping the price. We gave up. So figure it out, a lot of sound advice has been offered here, IMO 15K is a significant price for just a name.
the minimum offer I would consider was $15000
Your subsequent posts seem to hinge around this statement. I think you have to consider how the buyer sees this statement, which may different to how you see it. As a buyer, you have stated the "minimum you would sell" for, not "minimum you might consider selling" for. If you want more, then why did you only state $15K and not $30K? You might be grammatically correct but that won't help the perceptions. Raising your price is most probably going to get the buyer walking away as dealing with a non-serious seller (whatever you might have said). On the other hand, you have done nothing for 2 weeks, so you could do nothing for another 10 years, and just wait for them to increase their offer.
I don't think I will get a large offer from anyone else
we cannot discount another party from bidding in the future for something unrelated to the subject company’s business
So which is it?
As I stated upfront, sell. Get rid of the uncertainly and move on with your life.
All you have is a little gold fever.. "oh! could I make more? is this worth more if I play a game " etc ..
They've matched your minimum bid, let it go..
That is a decent return..
How would you feel if this juggling backfired and they said " ok we've tried we wont be back in touch"
your left with a domain that it is unlikely anyone else will be interested in as the trademark is held by a biggish company..
I know the hardest part of the deal is saying yes.. but what are you waiting for..
If the shoe was on the other foot what would you think/do ..
You'd think this guy is just playing with us, let's just forget it, we've got this far with out that domain, let's just put that cash in to developing the brand we have.. and goodbye .. I know I would..
There are several unanswered questions, the most interesting of which is why the approach was made from this company now?
Also, have you done some research on the company? Turnover, profits etc... Have you been able to see where they're heading, in terms of strategy?
And, what amount of traffic do you get to the domain that could make it's value $150,000 instead of $15,000? From the company point of view, if the traffic is currently null, throwing $$$,$$$ in marketing to promote the domain name will have similar results if its for name.com or nameInc.com.
We must also consider the amount of time that has passed without any legal action from the company in question, which suggests that there isn't going to be any.
Let's say they evaluated that it will costs them $50,000 to get the domain through legal process (and that they have an 80% chance of getting it). Contacting you and getting it for $15,000 will save them $35,000 and 'earn' you $15,000. Going to court will cost the $50,000 and you the same amount. Which would you prefer?
As many other people have said, your reply email - from the way your presented it here - meant that $15,000 was an ok offer. Going back to them and asking for $30,000 or $100,000, may get you the money. But it may also stand against you in court as domain squatting.
I was told this was a good site to find helpful information on but I am wondering if that is true with some of the responses I have receievd.
The question I am toying with is - do I sell now at this price, or do I wait to receive a larger offer from this company which of course may never come?The domain is parked but earns almost zero in revenue.
Yes, you're toying. If the domain earns zero and received a $15,000 offer, sell now!
If they take, you get the same money, and the chance to charge far more at the end of the first lease.
If they don't, they may come up with an offer for outright purchase based on the assumed rental value (which would be 5 to 10 times the annual rental).
If they do, say you want to get the domain professionally valued. Take their price if it is above the professional valuation; if below, copy them the report and say you'd welcome their next bid.
Or offer them a cheap-rate link: say 2000 a year for a link to their main domain from your home page.
That gives them a range of options to consider, and (with luck) they'll short-circuit the decision process by offering a bag of money for the simplest option: outright purchase
