IE8 and FF3, display: table and inline-block

freedom of choice in sight?

[SuzyUK]

CSS2 Display Properties [w3.org]

IE8 brings with it the long awaited support for

display:table-x

properties; - the last of the majors to do so

That will hopefully put an end to the "CSS is difficult" for layout.

FF3 brings with it the not so well known but IMHO very useful

display: inline-block;

property - also the last of the majors with support for this

This will allow gallery style layouts without the 'graph paper' grid structure that you get with tables

I know it's a bit away until both the above browsers have a large enough uptake for us to chuck out the floats (used for both at the minute) yet.. but it's in sight .. ahhh

[JAB Creations]

LoL I've been working with block-level divisible elements for so long I forget, a table's border, margin, and padding subtract from the total width versus add to it? The display: table property/value obviously would emulate this I presume.

- John

[poppyrich]

Yeah, I've used inline-block a lot. Never could quite figure out why I didn't see it much elsewhere. Always found it solved problems, at least for me.

Haven't quite figured out how the table property works, though, have to spend some time with it.

IE8 looks to be good.

My grandson is about to be two years old and around about the time he's out of high school I'll bet we can start using this stuff!

[DrDoc]

My grandson is about to be two years old and around about the time he's out of high school I'll bet we can start using this stuff!

So, I guess a lot of us are just "special", since we've used "this stuff" since long before your grandson was even born?

CSS layout has never been difficult ... just also never been easy.

Now at least everyone is finally sitting around the same table, and the menu is guaranteed to be the same.

[poppyrich]

@doc

How do you use this stuff if the browser doesn't support it?

Yeah, you can write it, but there's no result. What do you mean to say?

Also, I want to mention a really excellent article (search joelonsoftware) about the problems inherent in the implementation of "web standards". Best I've read.

Very soon, browsers will erupt in a civil war with IE6,7, and 8 all differing, depending upon doctype and version vector metatag, different renderings of the same page.

It's getting crazy again. I'm thinking of learning how to use tables for layout. (I don't really know how - always used style sheets.)

[SuzyUK]

The display: table property/value obviously would emulate this I presume.

It does in FF/Opera how IE will implement it remains to be seen.

FF and Opera actually emulate HTML tables pretty closely, I tried positioning in a display: table-cell; and it still didn't work (just like in HTML tables).

[Demaestro]

Does anyone know if IE8 will support... visibility:collapse

[JAB Creations]

I read somewhere that IE8 will supposedly have full CSS 2.1 support. Two key things not to rely on: my source (don't remember if it was by the IE team) and the word supposedly. ;) Did you check the CSS 2.1 post that included test cases? One might have a test case for visibility though that is a proprietary property in older browsers (though I have not come across or looked for it in the spec).

- John

[DrDoc]

... not to mention the fact that 2.1 is still not a W3C Recommendation, since it was sent back to the table a while back.

But, it's fairly safe to assume that not much about it will change, so ...

[SuzyUK]

Does anyone know if IE8 will support... visibility:collapse

no, sorry am not testing it going for the "que sera sera" approach ;) but an interesting property!

so.....

so what, what's the difference we work with what have - always have done always will do - seriously if you haven't already read that article poppyrich mentions on joelonsoftware, "Martian Headsets", I think it explains quite nicely why it is how it is - and imho it explains more on the why we've seen the CSS2.1 goalposts move quite often including the "going back to the table" perhaps?

[VidGa]

Actually, the only goalpost that's ever shifted with CSS2.1 was a formal change to the acceptance criteria for Recommendations that was enacted, I believe, shortly after CSS 2.0 was approved. The current procedure requests two interoperable implementations for every single feature in the specification. I think, in this case, IE8 may provide them with everything they need to move it up to a Proposed Recommendation.

I'm not sure if officially or politically IE's market share was a hang-up on the advancement of CSS 2.1. It's possible that between the Safari, Firefox, and Opera they just couldn't fill all the gaps for the entire specification. Firefox 3's enhancements (inline-block, for example) will probably also drive CSS 2.1 past the finish line. And it's about time, too.