'HTML & CSS is for babies.'

[Makaveli2007]

Please don't throw stones at me lol j/k.

I remember asking somebody what I needed to do to create websites, etc.. He's a computer science major.

He made the statement I mentioned in the title and said something along the lines "every 12yr old can code html pages after all..."

If you're completely honest, how do you feel about this?

I bet HTML, CSS is less difficult than a programming language, but I continue to run into people saying that this or that about CSS is quite difficult. I also realize how you have to try out stuff and find new ways to solve a problem only to get your lay-out to show up the way you want it in different browsers, etc. (work-arounds, hacks,...).

Is CSS really that simple or would only a person who doesn't do any web-stuff say this based on his limited experience with CSS?

[Rosalind]

CSS is pretty simple, but it depends on what you're comparing it with. Given the choice between wrestling with CSS and Apache's mod_rewrite, for instance, I'd choose CSS every time.

It does have a few difficulties, particularly when you come across browsers handling things differently, such as spacing. I wouldn't say that every 12 year old can build good html, but it's well within the capabilities of most average 12 year olds to learn it, and to learn the basics of CSS when they reach 13.

[netchicken1]

CSS is pretty easy. Heck try working with php or JS to see what a real language is.

[jdMorgan]

> He's a computer science major.

Don't listen to such young children; Their world-view is much too limited by lack of experience. They tend to minimize the skill required to accomplish any task with which they are unfamiliar.

HTML is a text mark-up language, so no, it is not as difficult to master as say, a real programming language like "C", but then again I doubt that your CS Major could code an HTML page with complex CSS in an elegant manner, and I doubt that his first effort would pass W3C validation, either. :)

Jim

[rocknbil]

The mechanics of any coding or even most programming is very easy to understand. It doesn't take much to understand that <strong> means bold, or .thisClass assigns a class, or alert('makes an alert').

Making it all work together, efficiently, being able to function in any situation, approach any problem that arises, and making it do what you want in complex situations is another matter entirely.

[SuzyUK]

what jdmorgan said ;)

every 12yr old can code html pages after all...

this perhaps used to be the case, but not now and you can tell the pages that are marked up in a 12yo's manner :o

Time has moved and the demand for cleaner markup for cross media purposes means you either use a trusted CMS that has had its HTML and CSS coded by experienced people or you get an experienced person to clean up your '12 year old design' for you. Would there be a demand for these "cleaning" services if the "babies" could do it ;)

While I agree that programming languages are likely more difficult to learn, as has been said HTML is a Markup Language, and CSS is a method for styling it. There is a reason that HTML and CSS are still evolving (HTML5 and CSS3) it is growing as the WWW medias need it to.

In all fairness to the 12 y.o's, IMHO they mostly now use WP blogs or social networking pages and don't bother to code their own because the can't get the pages to look 'cool' enough and if they're lucky they get to use just enough CSS (social networking sites) so as not to be dangerous :)

[vincevincevince]

It comes down to how you learn. If you learn your HTML and CSS properly then yes, it is very easy to learn. Unfortunately, even today, beginner courses absolutely ruin the clear semantic meaning of both HTML and CSS.

Well written, neither have characteristics of a programming language. One is a style specification, and one is easy to understand markup to text using a few different tags.

Yes, I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of all the cowboys who are still teaching the use of tables for layout, placing visual styles within the html and never give their students a clear understanding of semantics. Courses like that do more harm than they do good; it would be better for the student if they'd never attended as they are not handicapped against someone who isn't full of misunderstanding.

[varya]

There are a large number of things that are simple enough that children far younger than 12 can do them.... play chess, dance, draw, paint, sing, play go, cook, sew, weave, whittle, play piano, etc., etc.

To be able to do them masterfully is another thing entirely.

[Makaveli2007]

@varya: that's exactly how I feel about it. I used to always think something along those lines whenever the "SEO is not rocket science" - debate comes up LOL.

I think of different fields and the skill they require this way:

Some skills are very very hard to learn (the majority of people wouldnt be able to learn them b/c of not being smart or persistent enough) and once you have truly acquired that skill you have pretty much separated yourself from most and it doesn't take much more to be successful. For example the stuff that people refer to as "rocket science".

And on the other hand you have skills that basically anyone can learn given enough time. For example marketing. Anybody can read up on marketing or probably (whitehat) SEO. But just because anybody can learn "marketing" or "SEO" doesn't mean everybody will become great at it.
(I guess web design is the same when it comes to this)

[Xapti]

Simple html and CSS is extremely easy. The main thing about the two is that you don't necessarily need to know all the syntax, elements and properties, you can just look up references when you need.

More complicated HTML and CSS combinations are harder to do because you then need to pay attention to the web standards, and take into account all the browser bugs which stray from the standards.
Understanding much of the W3C's site takes a high level of english language (and/or whatever other languages they offer) comprehension, which may be difficult to understand for younger people.
Bugs are easy for young people to learn (memorizations), but they would still need to learn about them, which takes time.

The thing I like about HTML and CSS, is it's much easier to diagnose and correct errors. With programming languages, that can be a difficult task. While both use quite a bit of logical thinking, CSS and HTML uses/requires a bit more organization, and definately uses more spacial cognition (well, other than things like graphics programming).