Are lyrics copyrighted?

There are too much lyrics site.

[fischermx]

I guess they are not.
What do you think?

[BigDave]

If you actually read Australian copyright law it explicitly names the archives (all related to the Australian government) that are allowed to archive copyrighted works.

That would be a largely unworkable solution in the United States. Since the right to create an archive was not granted as an exclusive right to the federal government in the constitution, they would find it difficult to get away with granting themselves such status by law.

Here is how it is defined in the US Code:

(2) the collections of the library or archives are
(i) open to the public, or
(ii) available not only to researchers affiliated with the library or archives or with the institution of which it is a part, but also to other persons doing research in a specialized field;

Intel could not call their library an archive or library under the law, without opening itup to AMD. It really is pretty elegant in it's simplicity. It incourages makeing information available to the public.

The way the US Code deals with archives is designed to limit the harm that the archives can do to a copyright holder, as well as limiting the damage that the copyright holder can do to the archive.

The archival copying laws are meant to allow the preservation of the archive, not necessarily to be able to distribute more copies beyond those required for s specific individual to do research.

If you want to read more, it is in the US Code, Title 17, section 108. It isn't perfect, but it is probably the least abused part of US copyright law.

[fischermx]

BigDave:

Do you think that a lyrics website with say, 3-4 first phrases of the song and a legend "want more? Go to your nearest CD store" would be somehow under fair use?

Though, it would be totally useless for me and the visitors, but trying to keep it legal.

What do you think?

[stapel]

Demaestro said: If I purchase a cd with songs on it then I as a consumer am entitled to the lyrics.

So you believe that buying a movie DVD entitles you to the screen-play...? And that you can republish that screen-play at will...?

If not, how does this differ from your example of buying a CD and feeling entitled to the sheet music or lyrics?

Demaestro said: If I want to teach children...

Aw, geez; are you really pulling out the "I'm only doing this because I care about the children" card?

Isn't that what the colleges tried, in the Kinko's case...? "We're plagiarising these works because it's cheaper for the children; we want to reach the children; we're doing this because we care about the children!"

They lost.

Demaestro said: Song lyrics are only a part of a entire peice[sic] of work...

So if somebody only copies and reposts half of your web site, you're fine with that, because it's only part of your entire work...? It's okay to copy and sell movie DVDs, as long as you first delete the trailers and the FBI notice...? It's okay to rip and burn music CD's, as long as you only republish the top-selling tracks, not all of them...?

If not, please clarify the difference between these examples and what you want. And kindly leave the kiddies out of this. Thank you.

Eliz.

[fischermx]

Funny story aside: I'm a musician, not living from it, but my brother is. I'm on "internet business" you know. But he's a composer and is playing in a band.
Recently they recorded a CD and it is on sale in the stores.

When we first listened the recently acquired CD, my mom took it and told me: "please, make me 10 copies to share with you relatives".
My brother incredulous yelled : "What!?, Mom, ask them to buy it in walmart!"
My own mom pirating his son, lol.
It is soo easy to oversight copyright law.

Actually, this is where all the idea came from. I'm about to setup the band's website and I'll post all their lyrics on it, including with CD art, and 1-minute samples of the songs. Then I thought, why not a big site with all the lyrics in their genre as well!?

I'm totally aware of the damage of putting online the whole CD music. I've been totally aware of it. That's why the 1-minute samples.
Not the same on lyrics. Many lyrics are not available anyware. And people can always take 10 minutes to write it down from their CDs. You can't avoid people creating their own compendium for their personal use.
In our case, since this music will not be published in neither sheet music nor tablature, the lyrics will help to spread the word about the band and help people to learn the songs more easly.

[KenB]

When we first listened the recently acquired CD, my mom took it and told me: "please, make me 10 copies to share with you relatives".
My brother incredulous yelled : "What!?, Mom, ask them to buy it in walmart!"
My own mom pirating his son, lol.

Now that is funny. :)

Actually, this is where all the idea came from. I'm about to setup the band's website and I'll post all their lyrics on it, including with CD art, and 1-minute samples of the songs.

From a marketing perspective this would be very smart, assuming of course they own the copyrights to their songs ;)

Then I thought, why not a big site with all the lyrics in their genre as well!?

What you should do is approach other bands with the idea. If they are other independent bands they may very well go along with the idea. After all it could help them market their music, but this should be up to their discresion if they want to go along or not.

Not the same on lyrics. Many lyrics are not available anyware.

To me this is a marketing oversight. Not only re musicians losing out on a market to sell sheet music to people who want to play the songs themselves, but they stand to increase earning with a cooperatively built lyrics site that sold their songs and they shared in the advertising revenue from. The copyright owners should work collectively through the music industry to produce such a site.

And people can always take 10 minutes to write it down from their CDs. You can't avoid people creating their own compendium for their personal use.

Nor should any want to stop this. This is what fair use is all about and it is how to increase the popularity of music. However, there is a big difference between someone writing down the lyrics for themselves and publishing those lyrics on a website for the world to see.

[Demaestro]

I just want to thank every one who took part in this.. erm.. discussion.

I guess my whole ranting and stomping had mostly to do with the fact that people seemed fine with Google doing things and getting upset at the idea of others doing it.

Dave you have giving me a lot to think about

You want to be a selective human information source. Do you understand the difference?

I do now.

I care about the children card

It isn't a card I really do care. My life is my son, I am a single parent raising an 11 year old alone, and if you had any idea how much time a month I volenteer to further this society without me gaining any monetary compansation you would see that I am community minded and that is why I have the view points that I have.

All the points about song lyrics being included with the disks and websites of the band providing lyrics is great and works for new music. But there is so much great old stuff out there.

I have so many CDs from the Flea market, some of them don't even have the insert jackets for as they are really old and weren't with the disk when I bought it.

So sometimes I have a disk and I don't even know the track names. I have to admit the 'illegal' sites have helped me sort a lot of that out and I am greatful for the them in that respect.

Anyway for me this was a great discussion, hope everyone took something out of this as I have.

[edited by: Demaestro at 5:33 pm (utc) on Aug. 29, 2006]