Forum Moderators: skibum
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Would you tune in to a T.V. station if they did nothing but show commercials?
Home Shopping Network and its clones seem to do pretty darn well. And, I have seen "Infomericials" that ran anywhere from 30 minutes to a full hour. Real estate, golf clubs, cooking gadgets, etc.
So yes, people tune into TV simply to watch commercials.
Me thinks he doth protest too much...
It's clearly disclosed, there is nothing sinister about it
Some of us consider it very sinister indeed when our sites get "popped on" without our consent.
If it is uninstalled and it reinstalls itself without the consent of the computer owner, and the reinstallation is omitted from the agreement, we then we have a problem. The agreement must be presented again.
If the reinstall isn't in the agreement then we could compare this action as somebody coming into your home without permission and leaving a pile of dog crap on your living room floor. You tell the person to get out only to have them come back again a little later to do it again and again.
If the reinstall is in the agreement then "buyer beware"? Hmmm. Read up on the essential elements of a contract. There has to be consent supported by consideration, capacity of parties (sane and legal age), legality of purpose, TERM, and so on and so forth.
I see the "buyer beware" syndrome going around here but why then do we have lemon laws when buying a car? Companies hide behind (or work around) laws that protect them and "buyers" have the right to do the same. What is going on now with the issue is the "buyers" right to be protected against this sort of thing and govern new laws to protect their rights. Even the right to be stupid.
Some of us consider it very sinister indeed when our sites get "popped on" without our consent.
I assume you also hate the Alexa toolbar and other software like that then too then? If you run the Alexa toolbar whenever you go to a site, links to other sites in the same type of category are visible right in the toolbar. Google's toolbar will probably be next.
Online advertising isn't going anywhere, and like I said I'm against regulating the Internet in any shape or form. If people were more careful about what they installed, there would be no reason for this debate. Anyone who considers their computer an "appliance" and they should just be able to throw whatever garbage software they want on it and it should "just work" does nothing but prove how ignorant they really are. These people should put the computer back in the box and ask for a refund.
Of course not but the kind that is triggered by other site's content (keywords, urls) will go, just a matter of time.
Does anybody know if it says in the agreement that it will reinstall without notification? Just curious. I don't even want to come near the stuff to find out.
I've never seen software that does this automatic reinstall crap that everyone is talking about. If such a thing exists, I certainly wouldn't support it. I am trying to point out to people that there is a difference between responsible vendors using AdWare - where the details are disclosed in the license agreement and the software does what it says it will do nothing more, nothing less - and the kind of scamware it's often compared to.
These are two separate things here, you can't just lump all adware into the same category just because you don't like looking at advertisements. Most AdWare is NOT sneaky, illegal, shady, etc.
Of course not but the kind that is triggered by other site's content (keywords, urls) will go, just a matter of time.
Have you ever considered the possibility that people WANT content matching? I like that when I find a site the Alexa toolbar shows me other sites offering similar content and/or services. It makes it easier for me to compare and search competitors.
I don't think this is ever going to go away, and I certainly HOPE it doesn't.
"Have you ever considered the possibility that people WANT content matching?"
Who cares what they want? I could care less whatever agreement a user and software application get into. The problem lies that it uses other people's site content to trigger an application to launch advertising and profiting of it. That's a big problem.
[edited by: TrustNo1 at 4:10 am (utc) on May 24, 2004]
I also hear ya on not regulating the internet which isn't a bad idea but then you would have to allow for viruses and malicious programs and entities out there also.
There is a line to be drawn but where?
I assume you also hate the Alexa toolbar and other software like that then too then?
I'm on a Mac, and have never seen the Alexa toolbar in action, so I can't comment intelligently. My first question would be, who picks those links to similar sites, and on what basis?
The Alexa toolbar might be problematic, but from your description it doesn't sound as though a user would be likely to blame the site being viewed for something Alexa did. On the other hand, programs that actually pop ads over other people's pages are intrusive, confusing, and harmful to other people's reputations. That certainly fits my definition of "sinister".
Now if there were pop overs, then the ads would be intrusive, confusing, and also harmful to my site's reputation.
You just need 10% of the nodes on your network to be installed with spyware and your Internet connection will slow to a crawl.
It cause so much crashes, in a way it helps keep my job.
I've never seen software that does this automatic reinstall crap that everyone is talking about. If such a thing exists, I certainly wouldn't support it.
It exists. A guy at the company I used to work for had it. The IT department uninstalled it four times and it came back four times without even opening a browser window.
George
P.S. Removing spyware keeps me employed too but I wish it didn't lots of very mad novice internet users.
I also asked if they were likely to visit the sites or purchase from any of the ads. Every single one said no. Not after they had been so annoyed.
Granted, if you do not understand how your start page got changed, you would be forced to use it... creating paid clicks for the installer, creating a charge to the advertiser, and forcing the user to go wherever they are being forced to go-lacking the savvy to escape the "enhancement."
As long as businesses continue to buy this added "exposure", it will exist.
I have had several high profile clients ask about this type of advertising, and I heartily lobbied against it. In two cases, I had to tell them if they insisted on using this method, our contract would not be renewed. I felt that strongly, and still do.
As far as people giving permission, and installing what they want on their own "appliances" - well, I am fully aware of this junk, and I still get slammed with it now and then, despite virus protection and an firewall - and I assure you that I do not electronically sign ANY permission slips to take over my browser or install spyware. Getting rid of this!@#$ is usually a nightmare, hidden files, random names, changing dates, you name it.
Sure there are "good guys" and bad guys in this arena, just as there are spammers, and honest email marketers, SEO's and total spamdexers.
As a marketer, when 30 people in the market (end users) tell me they hate the intrusion, I listen.
I don't like it, I won't buy it, and I hope it goes away.
GO LL BEAN!
Set a precedent - at least for OBVIOUS mandatory warnings and uninstall instructions that a total newbie can understand.
Not the fine print on a EULA that nobody ever reads, but just gives "permission" for this voluntary infection.
As far as the 'people should read the EULA', before they willingly click on the 'ok' button - one cannot draw any sort of parallel to any 'realworld' purchase or service, because of the ease of how internet works.
With signing your life on a new car or house payments, there's a lot more involvement from the user - installing scumware is - guess what - just a click away. How many clicks have you done so far today? how many houses have you signed your life away today? If you read every single EULA/TOS from every website you register with, will you be doing anything else today?
Scumware KNOWS this and takes advantage of it by HIDING in the EULA.
There's a reason why AdWare is also called Scumware. Can any advocate of adware point out why? It's not because of their transparent business practices.
FYI, I realize scumware is not illegal(not yet) but it's immoral.
