Forum Moderators: skibum
Now that I've been doing this for some months, I have enough data to establish which sites work and which don't. My conclusion - anything that directs to a site with a toll free order line makes a loss. Customers prefer to have the comfort of a human voice where it is an option, stands to reason.
However, I paid good PPC money to send that buyer to their site.
How about, as a collective force, we at WW try and lobby the aff networks to only offer links through to sites where online ordering is the only option. One very good network I work with in the UK seems to be promoting such a practise, and as I see it this would be the only fair option.
Anyone else care to comment- Brett?
Why would you want to reduce the potential for your web site to find new business for you?
After all you won't make the sale in ANY way if hte affilaite stops promoting you.
SN
I have a couple of clients that use individual telephone numbers to track web site activity. These numbers have their own logs ... perhaps some kind of deal could be set up where an aff network sets up a unique number along with the affiliate's tracking ID ...
This would mean the site receiving the traffic dynamically writing the phone number passed, of course ... and although this would work technically, I'm not sure how practical it would be.
This way, a call to the unique number could be considered as a click. The end customer is happy, and so are the affiliates :)
Sadly, experience tells me that this is probably going to fall into the "nice idea" category ...
Additionally, they theoretically could and may use the tracking code to ease the phone ordering process and customer service by knowing which pages the user is viewing, or has viewed. I believe it us unique per session.
I would be more than happy to allow the affiliate to tell any visitors to use a certain code, but then you run the risk of the person not using it. I was also thinking that I could give the affiliate a coupon code for like a $1 or $2 off and then track phone sales that way, but that would be a $1 or $2 off the affiliate's sale and I don't know if any of you would go for that.
I like the priority code thing mentioned above, but you still have the problem of the customer not using it.
Which method would an affiliate prefer? A coupon code to track phone sales or a displayed priority code?
With all due respect, I feel very strongly that any party in a network that reduces the network's utility by being greedy should be eliminated.
I'll vote for the "tracking code"- though can we make that an extension number? Sounds a lot less scary to me. That's the only "win-win-win" solution that can work. Plus, having a phone system set up to track extension numbers is better than relying on clients to mention a tracking code. If a technical solution is impracticable or too expensive, the merchant should be systematically asking for the extension number.
If a merchant refuses to implement such a solution then it is they who are being greedy, and they should be unceremoniously dumped.
And of course if these merchants still underperform, by all means try another...
in the UK, these numbers are very cheap to obtain, and any good call centre would be able to handle the system.
from a website point of view, should be very simple to show the telephone # based on where the traffic came from.
Shak
I also accept the point that a toll free order line does bolster consumer confidence, which as we all know is vital.
So, given these variables, are there any workable solutions? The UK affiliate program that I mentioned in an earlier post has actually gone to the trouble of designing a merchant site specifically for affiliate sales. Their toll free number's not gone, it's just given far less prominence on the site, so a customer would have to actively seek it. Their main (non affiliate) site has the number "in your face" big time, as one would expect.
An extention might be a bit better, but you still have the problem of a customer giving it. I mean, they will call and say "I'd like to place an order" and it would be all over as far as an extention.
So, given these variables, are there any workable solutions?
It's the affiliate that would gain from having a unique toll free number. So why not give the affiliate the chance to pay for it?
Otherwise a generic toll free number could be used as usual.
A related technology worth considering: how about live chat? Michael, do you have stats for those? Do they tend to outperform other sites? Hanna?
Live chats may not be as great for customers, but they simplify tracking and would be arguably cheaper to run than 1-800 numbers (you can be chatting with more than one person at a time, have pre-scripted answers, etc...).
Then, Depending on your call switch, and the amount of effort you want to put into it, the phone system could prompt the caller for the "extension" OR the service rep can simply ask for it.
Also, always count yourself as one of your affiliates. So when the traffic comes from your own efforts (as opposed to one of your affiliates) the website would display an extension/priority code linked to your own affiliate ID. This will eliminate any differences in how affiliate generated calls are handled versus standard calls.
The affiliates need to understand that you are making a legitimate effort to give them credit. They also need to understand that the task of doing so cannot put additional burden on the customer and it cannot (significantly) increase your own cost per sale. Some sales will slip through no matter what.
Remember when you program the number, whatever you are going to call it, you need to program in the cookie length, to ensure affiliates get the full potential commission.
Linda
Surprising to me, 50% of orders are via the telephone.
Therefore if telephone orders aren't tracked, you're potentially missing out on a lot of profit.
Chris
I also think that you may be overestimating the abilities of a merchant. I mean, chancesare if they are big enough to have a website, toll free number and an affiliate program, we aren't talking about 2 little old ladies answering the phone. They probably either have an outsourced phone solution or at least a dozen or so operators, most likly more.
Trying to supress a code in a big phone room enviroment would be like stopping a flood. Too many people answering the phone who enter in codes all day long. They would do it automatically, even if they were told not to.
Would you buy soomething from a site that did not have a contact phone number? If you don't trust the people you do business with then ...
Have never seen one at amazon ... I think a good and reliable layout has the same effect.
It would be an interesting exercise to compare the EPC figures from CJ's top merchants with the prominence of telephone ordering options on the sites - my money says that the higher the EPC, the less "in your face" the number on the site. However, the returns across different industries would vary so much that it would only make any sense if similar industries were grouped together for comparison purposes.
What would be even better is to have a site that ran EPC figures across all the affiliate networks, fed by webmasters' own results. At the moment I believe that it's only CJ that have this feature.
Or, even better, would be for a new or existing affiliate network to take a stand and ban telephone ordering options across their merchant network, then make a big noise about how superior their EPC figures are as a result of the policy. This would drive more publishers to them, which would in turn force merchants to re-think this issue, and, with luck, take a "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" approach.
Of course, I accept that this might appear as affiliate publisher utopia that I'm proposing, but why not? If the network gets richer, the merchants get richer, and the publishers get richer, then why not?
One argument is bound to be "What about the customer who's uncomfortable ordering online?". Well, he/she is unlikely to have surfed to the purchase anyway, the Yellow Pages being a more favoured medium for this type.
Makes you wonder about all these stats about online retailing growth too - do they take the buyers who located the product online but bought it on the phone into account. Anyone have any data on this?
Well, he/she is unlikely to have surfed to the purchase anyway
10% of my "online sales" are phoned in. The phone reps put in a special code as soon as the customer says "I saw this on your website". Are you willing to lose 10% of sales simply because you don't want to hassel with phone numbers? I certainly don't. We even have significant portion of people who come through PPC ads and then call to order.
Lots of people are learning about the internet. It's an easy way to browse products and then, when they are ready, to call in their order. They like the medium, but for some reason they think that giving their CC# online is more dangerous than giving it to a complete stranger over the phone. Go figure.
Amazon can get away with no phone # b/c they are mega giants. They have built a trustworthy reputation. I am afraid we smaller merchants do not have that benifit. A phone number implies that you are a real business, not a throw up a page and be gone tomorrow business.
I am afraid that all it would do to force the merchants hand on this one through the networks would be to drive the merchants away. They might be willing to make changes and concesions for a few well performing publishers, or they may be willing over time and with results to make changes, but I think that quite a few merchants would rather drop their publishers than ailinate their core customer.
Out of interest, how do you track the PPC traffic that eventually buys via the telephone? If, as I suspect, the system is dependent on the telephone operator inputting a code of some sort, then there are the obvious human error variables to take into account.
When I ran a large telesales operation ,we had a compulsory "how did you hear of us" field that the operatives had to fill. Over a month, it appeared that 2 operatives were only converting calls from one source, which admittedly accounted for over 70% of our sales. When we asked them to account for the discrepancy, they admitted that they weren't even asking the customers the questions, as "most of them heard about us that way anyway".
I suppose what I'm suggesting is that sites that sell to affiliate derived traffic don't dispense with the telephone option completely, but make their focus the creation of an online sale instead.
It would be an interesting exercise to compare the EPC figures from CJ's top merchants with the prominence of telephone ordering options on the sites.
That's a *great* idea. And if we run such an analysis, it would be good to look at as many factors as possible. My money is on page size/download time being the top factor.
then there are the obvious human error variables to take into account.
Yes, there is. Which is why I have been thinking of ways to encourage a customer to give that information. The coupon code I mentioned above is so far the one I think is best, although it does reduce the sale by a small amount.
I really want to give our future affiliates the ability to take advantage of our phone room. I already have hard proof that people do call in and if they call b/c of an affiliate, they should get the commision. I also want to give affiliates the phone advantage so that maybe, just maybe an enterprising affiliate could not only use the web to push our site but other areas as well.
While I know you think you can force a person to make an online purchase by not emphasizing the phone #, the fact is, that they will most likly just go somewhere else to make their purchase. Unless you are in a niche, there is always somewhere else.
This thread has given me quite a bit of insight into the whole thing and much to think about.
This is not the only type of customer that orders by phone. Many times customers have questions about features or need advice (just like in a store) or want to find out what's compatible. Also many times customers who call by phone are placing larger orders and fell more comfortable talking to a real person to develop trust in the company and ask some questions 1st. Then also there are those that are net savvy and comfortable shopping onlice but still don't feel safe entering their CC info or just hate filling out forms.
The biggest problem is still making the number compelling enough that customers will write it down along with the phone number and give it out automatically to the operator. Many people surf at work and then order from home and some people are still on dial-up and can't be online when they call in. So I think if you can afford to use a coupon code that would be a compelling reason to give the number.
Linda
Interestingly, your top 10 afiliates include a finance related site and the reference to "800# bleed". Would this be a reference to precisely the problem which prompted me to start this post? And if so, could it explain their presence in your chart?
You got it. The financial site just avoids the 800 leak altogether and since it's lead based and customers aren't purchasing anything, there is less need for a big 800#. But many of the product merchants have 800#s and do some sort of variable hearder to give affiliates credit. I agree with what someone earlier said, that in most cases a site should have 800# to enhance credibility, answer questions and offer customer service. Affiliates should just get credit. Getting merchants to deal with the extra promgramming and testing costs plus phone staff training and tracking, plus in the case of CJ, then having the extra labor costs to manually enter all the orders is not always easy. It's a cost/time commitment to really do it right.
