Forum Moderators: skibum
Chitika just announced that they are eliminating "curiosity clicks" from our revenues. Great. Who gets to decide what differentiates a "curiosity click" from an advertiser whose site just sucks and can't convert? Not us, that's for sure.
I spent probably a hundred hours putting up highly targeted ads on most of my pages. CTR and revenues were building nicely, then this. Whack! CTR cut in half, revenues by more than that. And just a casual blog post from them to announce it. Ho hum. Just another scam. Back to YPN!
In some places they write: Chitika audits the accounts on a monthly basis to filter fraudulent traffic.
Then in another place they write: Audits take place before payments are sent out to discount for invalid clicks.
So, is it fraud or invalid, the latter which can stand for any reason for any whim they have.
I'm really getting pretty aggravated with this whole experience,to say the least!
I'm hoping it will become even better next month with Chitika's expansion to Europe.
43% here and I am geo-targeting to just the countries they pay for. Something just does not add up.
So, will chitika comment on this, we should contact them and ask for this huge cut.
I only have one referral and her cut is about 36%.
This waiting around for a month for "audited stats" is too much.
How can you tell if the program is going to be profitable, when you have to wait a whole month?
Unaudited Referral Revenue (To Date) (Daily Breakdown)
58.64
Audited Referral Revenue (To Date) (Daily Breakdown)
2.44
Now, What the hell is that, Arghhhhhh....... , I am really pissed off :x
still ... looks like we're all some kind of fraudsters with such amount of fraudulent clicks ...
today they introduced alternative ads so we can replace the ads for example from "non-accepted countries" with the alternative ones.
but if they can distinguish in REAL TIME if the ad is delivered to non-accepted country then why the heck do they include earnings from those clicks into reports at all?!? Just to inflate the numbers so that Chitika looks like it's earning more than competition ...
it would be understandable if they knew only at audit if the ad was displayed in accepted or unaccepted country. but if they know it at the time the ad is being delivered (so they are able to show alternative ad) ... this is just unacceptable that they actually show their ad, allow user to click it, add the "earnings" to your report ... when they in the same millisecond know they'll never pay you for that click
Best if they implemented daily audits, so publishers know where they stand, instead of waiting a month for the audit axe to fall.
[edited by: foxtunes at 12:42 pm (utc) on Dec. 1, 2005]
invalid clicks
curiosity clicks
I wonder if Chitika can come up with any other kind of clicks to reduce income even more. Then we'll end up in the negative and owe them money.
Yep what a shame, if Chitika have ambitions of being in the contextual ad game for the long haul, this could turn out to be a PR disaster.
My AdSense CTR did not drop when I added Chitika to my pages, so it's all gravy. Yeah, I know it takes time/effort to implement, but I've automated 90% of it, so for me it is worth the small effort. For others, it may not be worth the effort.
People are upset because they:
1. Felt teased with "Unaudited Stats".
2. Waited 30 - 60 days for an audit.
3. Didn't expect a 25%-50% audit hit.
4. Don't fully understand Chitika's methodology for auditing.
Because this is a Beta product, Chitika is still developing/tweaking the system and refining the business model, so I'll cut them some slack. But if they move out of Beta without addressing the feature gap for accurate near real-time audited statistics that they have with their PPC Program competitors, they will suffer a high publisher turnover rate.
I'm in this for the long haul. For the near future, I'd prefer to stick with and work with Chitika on improving the system.
Actually, I'm very concerned about others' losses. Even if they are still in Beta, why stick w/ a program that underperforms almost every competitor out there? W/ my current unaudited earnings, the only reason to stick with them is to have more baskets for my eggs, but if it were to drop due to their "mystery clicks" (that will be the next one) there's no reason whatsoever to stick it out for a haul of any length.
My feelings are, about the whole Beta thing, is that the program is public - it is no longer in Beta despite what they say. If they really wanted to test it, don't make it public... I don't buy any of this Beta BS or any other excuse they can come up with.
If my November revenue takes nearly as big of a hit as I've seen most people say in this thread, I'm out... I'll also be out a couple months of higher revenue from their competition because they drag their feet so much. I can't make a decision right now because I can only see one day of audited stats. The daily audits (as far as geotracking and alternative ads) are possible. So the only other excuse is Fraud, which is highly unlikely. A click is a click unless someone is intentionally trying to harm you, in which case, you'd be kicked out of Adsense already...
I don't buy any of this Beta BS or any other excuse they can come up with.If my November revenue takes nearly as big of a hit as I've seen most people say in this thread, I'm out... I'll also be out a couple months of higher revenue from their competition because they drag their feet so much.
I hate to say this but this is business, and as far as I can figure, Chitika hasn't forced anyone to take down competitive advertising. Neither has it lied, or done anything to trick anyone. Whether you like it or not, you signed up, and jumped aboard a beta program with no track record, and no guarantees.
For people who replaced other income streams with Chitika based on a beta program/no track record, what's there to say? Maybe thinking more long term and thinking "business", rather than hoping for a quick kill this month, based more on hope rather than reality.
Chitika may or may not pan out over the long run, but we aren't truly going to know for many months yet. To have replaced income generators with it wholesale has always been risky.
The way I look at it -- the program is in beta, and WE are testing it in our own "beta". We've seen enough to have a sense on how to use it and not use it, and yes, we'll be cutting impressions by a lot until such time as they DO have a track record. If that happens, and only then, will we replace more established income generating programs with it.
Question for those who switched over to Chitika wholesale. Whatever were you thinking?
I remained stunned.
Maybe one could use just a single simple word to describe it: FRAUD.
It surely has nothing to do with a BUSINESS.
Ah. The slogan of the 2000's. When someone makes a business mistake when they should know better, and screw themselves, simply accuse someone of fraud to cover thine own.
Best to do so with no evidence or substantiation.
PS. Am I the only one that has this secret fantasy that all of the folks whining about fraud without cause should be brought together in a stadium and sued?
PPS. Am I the only one starting to feel that the fast-buck artists, complainers, and poor business people (ie. not competent) are starting to swamp webmasterworld?)
I'm not one of the ones who "switched over to Chitika wholesale" and to some extent I agree with a lot of what you say.
But there is something very fishy about the way Chitika is going about this, when I read that so many publishers audited income dropped 40-50-70%.
I think the phrase "fraudulent traffic" is pretty well defined in terms of the web community and that the term would be recognized and understood in a court of law. With rare exception my best guess is that most publishers don't have such high percentages of "fraudulent traffic." Even if one didn't supplant other programs such as Google AdSense for Chitika, we ARE giving Chitika our real estate.
I doubt there is a publisher who signed up for the beta program who envisioned there would be such massive reduction in income. Do you think any of us would have signed up with Chitika if they told us this up front? Does "beta" apply to significantly reducing a publishers income or, possibly, redefining "fraudulent traffic?"
Since I signed up, Chitika has come up with additional terms: "invalid clicks," "curiosity clicks." Are these new terms to take away funds from publishers?
I don't know how many website owners have signed up for the program but I'd be very interested to learn the total amount they reduced our combined income. Then they need to explain how they determine "fraudulent clicks." Barring a reasonable explanation, I wouldn't be surprised if someone considered bringing a class action suit against Chitika.
Only my opinion of course. I haven't given up on Chitika yet, but I do have serious concerns.
I doubt there is a publisher who signed up for the beta program who envisioned there would be such massive reduction in income. Do you think any of us would have signed up with Chitika if they told us this up front? Does "beta" apply to significantly reducing a publishers income or, possibly, redefining "fraudulent traffic?"
I think we agree on most of this but here's the deal. Chitika is a new company of unknown quality. We don't know much about it, whether it's cash rich, well capitalized or could go belly up tomorrow. They supplied almost no specific information about the program. Support and communication is not yet their strong point. Any savvy business person would not invest large amounts of valuable time, and energy into something based on faith or hope.
Only a complete fool would have any strong expectations one way or another in this situation. I don't make business partnerships with those I don't know anything about, or when the details of how that partnership will work. I don't put in hundreds of hours of work based on "hope". This is business. It's a tough world.
You, I, and everyone else "assumed" that audits would be "gentle", and that creatives would stay the same. Nobody promised us anything.
I am having more and more trouble feeling sympathy for those with no business sense, who make mistakes, and make assumptions and want to get rich quick, and THEN, get disappointed, and start whining and complaining because they screwed themselves over. And blame others for their own mistakes.
And if people have problems with that I have a bridge I can sell them over the Hudson. You can buy it, and have the joy of being screwed by poor business sense.
...or there's some great swampland...
Best to do so with no evidence or substantiation.PS. Am I the only one that has this secret fantasy that all of the folks whining about fraud without cause should be brought together in a stadium and sued?
PPS. Am I the only one starting to feel that the fast-buck artists, complainers, and poor business people (ie. not competent) are starting to swamp webmasterworld?)
No "evidence or substantiation"?
Do you work for those con artists?
The "business" who tried to compete with Google and lured a lot of publishers with competitive EPC, gives them 20-30% of their earnings because they (publishers) were not competent!?
Beta stage is related to technical issues, there is no beta stage in business relationship. No poor planning can excuse that.
Not sure where do you live to have such a busines orientation, but in stable countries, such a practice is called fraud without doubt.
It looks like fall about 30% over last couple days.
Alltogether with Noveber 11 reduction of clickable area
could bring everything down to the level where this program become reasonable. I can guess reductions for November will be for shure much less now.
