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If you are in the UK Paypal wants a Direct Debit - the ability to debit your bank account with whatever amount they want, whenever they want - and they'll go to great lengths to get it. And if they don't get it they have multiple ways to make your Paypal usage difficult.
That's not a big deal, surely? Paypal isn't your average hustler and isn't going to clean your account out, so what's the harm?
First, Paypal is not a bank and it's dangerous to treat it like one. Deposits in Paypal aren't covered like deposits in banks. Paypal isn't subject to the same strict regulatory regime as banks. Further, they are now Luxemburg based and even less accountable.
Second, and this is a big difference that people forget: If you cash a cheque someone gives you they can't cancel it a few weeks down the road. Paypal transactions CAN be cancelled and giving Paypal direct access to your bank is giving them an easy route out of any disputes. See #1: Paypal is not a bank.
Third, there are good reasons to treat them like you would a conman. Some of their modus operandi are highly suspicious. And that's what this post is about.
If you are UK based:
- Paypal will limit how much you can send people till you get "Verified"
- You can get verified via your bank account or your CC [paypal.com]
- Except that when you go to actually do the verification the only option is via your bank account.
- Hmm, but the info says CC. That's designed to take the emphasis off what is obviously their #1 intention
- To say bank or CC and give you only the bank option is a bit of a con in itself but let's say you give them your bank details
- They'll verify the account is yours but won't mark your Paypal account as "Verified" unless you give them a Direct Debit mandate.
- OK, so you give them the mandate to allow them to verify you and then remove it. Guess what - yes, you suddenly become unverified again!
They don't need to have direct, unrestricted access to my real bank account. That they are so keen as to be almost crooked in achieving that access is, I caution, grounds to consider them suspiciously.
I don't think so mate.
I don't see them transferring that lot...only new headquarters
Your complacency with your finances seems to be matched by your ignorance about the facts.
then they Paypal, have to know who you are, and that you're not some mad bomber or Nigerian letter scamster or whatever
Paypal, has announced that Paypal Europe (Ltd) will cease functioning, as Paypal moves its operations to another Paypal entity, based in Luxembourg.
Paypal Luxembourg will be regulated by the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier (CSSF), the Luxembourg equivalent of the Financial Services Authority (FSA)
Paypal Europe to move to Luxembourg [platinax.co.uk]
Fact or Fiction ... You make the call...
I do think so, "mate".
Obviously you don't, simply as you don't know what mail I get. You are being silly. Paypal haven't sent me anything about a relocation, so you are so wrong to suggest that I or other PP users should automatically know about this - end of. And I'm betting that others have got no mail about this either. For some reason, you don't see how this is possible, well, that's your problem and not mine.
With regards to this authentication stuff, my understanding of banking procedure is way above yours. I'd put serious amounts of cash on the fact that ALL banks, merchant providers etc etc are only checking identity with the banks of PP users. PP users don't fully understand this request for information and are assuming that Paypal are somehow spying on their accounts. The rest is of the jungle telegraph nature - inaccurate rumours of criminal activity.
This thread is about Paypal gaining access to users accounts, so let's not pretend it's not. For the last time Paypal cannot take control of your bank account, and think it's very wrong for anyone to spread this rumour on a public forum, but what is more disturbing is for members here to insult my intelligence and also to invent absurd claims about the mail I recieve.
[edited by: Helpinghand at 12:11 am (utc) on May 31, 2007]
Paypal haven't sent me anything about a relocation
so you are so wrong to suggest that I or other PP users should automatically know about this
New headquarters has nothing to do with billing, and hasn't affected my billing or payments or security in any way, shape or form
For the last time Paypal cannot take control of your bank account, and think it's very wrong for anyone to spread this rumour on a public forum, but what is more disturbing is for members here to insult my intelligence
that they are requiring on odious level of control for simple verfication and that once verified they won't release that control.
If you want to panic or worry about this - that's upto you. But you won't panic me into anything.
I still don't understand this 'control' thing, don't actually care anyway and as far as I know Paypal aren't controlling me. I don't need to worry as my bank protects me - it's what I pay them for.
Thing is if you really knew anything of substance you would have mentioned it. This is just rumours that have reached you from a dubious source, it scared you and now you're spreading the panic is all.
Don't worry about it - life's too short lol.
When you get a minute could you sticky me the details of this bank that takes payment to protect you from things like unfair Paypal chargebacks and against Paypal going bust?
If your bank doesn't provide this standard service, switch banks now!
The basic service I and others have when using Paypal, IS NOT the same as a bank merchant service, where the bank does charge a hefty fee to provide it's merchant services. Paypal is different to say my bank's merchant services, is free and is why many use Paypal. For instance my bank merchant service would cost me £12'000, and is why I use Paypal - but my bank monitors my account for ALL activity, including debits, credits, who is making the transactions, amounts being credited etc etc, so I'm not worried.
Either way, a bank will cover you more than adequately. This security is just there - you don't even need to enquire about such services (It's provided when you open any account). Major high street banks are not in the habit of exposing customer's accounts so that anyone can withdraw funds, it would create problems for the banks and they would be out of business so fast because of it.
I don't know where you got this notion that banks are incompetent, but it's wrong and even more foolish to post about matters you really have no knowledge of. A quick phone call to your bank enquiring about security will soon tell you more than you need to know, and if your worried about outside agencies probing your accounts, I suggest you complain to your bank - they will sort it.
Banks know more about you than you realise, and the reason for this is to protect you! If banks aren't protecting clients, then something is seriously wrong - but that won't be the case.
but it's wrong and even more foolish to post about matters you really have no knowledge of
Only an idiot would believe that a company regulated by the FSA isn't safer for a UK citizen than an offshore company not under such regulation. So give us your superior knowledge of banks and confirm that a financial institution under FSA is safer than a financial institution outside of FSA remit ;)
Banks know more about you than you realise
A bank won't refund you for money that's in your Paypal account when/if Paypal goes bust. As they are not under the scrutiny of the UK government anymore leaving any money in Paypal is about as safe as dumping it in a annonymous offshore bank account. Still probably safe .... but not as safe as in your local Barclays (with a government guarantee of part money back if they go bust).
leaving any money in Paypal is about as safe as dumping it in a annonymous offshore bank account. Still probably safe .... but not as safe as in your local Barclays.
So cancel your Paypal account and use Barclays then. You keep ranting and complaining about how crap Paypal is and the FSA not worth a hoot, so do something instead of the verbal - it's much more usefully productive.
Paypal has moved over to another Country, there isn't really much you can do about this - so why keep bitching about it. You have 3 options:
Cancel Paypal account and use something else
Use your bank merchant service
Or you could waste more time with one-upmanship talk
You have provided zero evidence that Paypal steals money - none whatsoever, and it's because you can't. You'd rather chat about the FSA and turn it around on me, because it removes the attention off you. Don't waste you time.
For the record, I'm not an expert on the FSA, I never said I was an expert, infact few former bank staff have such indepth knowledge anyway - BUT, I know banking procedure of customer accounts, where as you don't. I used to work in a building society, and opened accounts for many customers, and part of my job was to explain the security aspects and reassure customers that the money would be safe - as it is in all banks.
Banks hire the top web, IT and financial experts going, and the system is pretty much watertight, not completely, but more than enough to stop an outside agency such as Paypal.
The FSA has been the regulator for financial services in the UK since I think 2001 - they have a strong interest in maintaining regulations outside of the UK, the FSA actively participates in this, so you can bet the FSA care about protecting consumers of financial products and services. Whether this includes Paypal - I don't know and neither do you.
I could contact the FSA and find out, but if I could find this information out then so can you. So why don't you do it, and it will solve all your issues won't it.
But then I'm not the one who is worried about Paypal - you are. This is why this is so hilarious lol.
Paypal can't get near your account.
PayPal's complaints process has to follow the FSA guidelines - if they're not doing that properly then you should be able to get redress.
(mod: permission for this link? it's to a government site)
andye, Paypal (Europe) Ltd is irrelevant. Your account isn't with them anymore. It's been moved [paypal.com] to a company that is not under FSA control and doesn't need to operate to strict FSA standards. That's all explained earlier.
The account looks exactly the same, seems to operate in exactly the same way, your previous login still works but, sorry, you won't get "redress" if something goes wrong because they don't need to bother about FSA rules any more.
It's now PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A. (PayPal Luxembourg), regulated by the Luxembourg Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier. They have a Luxembourg bank licence, i.e. they're regulated as a bank. Dispute resolution through the UK Financial Ombudsman Service is still available.
I can't say I see a big problem with any of this.
Paypal's customer service department has always been awful, I've taken that as a given in dealing with them. That's one reason why I don't do large amounts of business through them - but for the odd payment here and there, I don't see any reason for concern.
Yes, there were a few cases of transfer problems to current accounts, but this happens and doubt it was deliberate, and I haven't heard of anything major since. If such an issue exists, then it would be public knowledge the world over, you know like in the press! And Paypal just woudn't be used by anyone and will go bust very soon.
The majority of Paypal users are webmasters with their fantastic single page web sites, so I'm not worried about these being ripped off - are you? I hope Paypal does go bust, as will mean webmasters can't afford proper merchant account fees, sites will go bust, and the junk on the web gets cleaned automatically.
But by the sound of things Oddsod, your thoughts will soon be reality and there won't be anything to worry about as sites will be gone - like a big hole in the ground, swallowing up the trash. So I really don't understand why you are worried, because the problem you are so confident of, will solve itself. Wouldn't you say...
Self eradication of web junk. Wonderful.
And I won't start replying to them now ;)
Feel free to continue using Paypal, why do you even need to bother with replying in this thread?