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January 2008: Are You Seeing The Lowest Numbers Ever?

What are some good legal practices to fight smartpricing & help advertisers

     

Erku

2:31 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I am seeing the lowest numbers ever. Is it the same for you?

Few questions:

1.) If you are smart priced how long does it take until you get out of it, or do you ever?

2.) What are some potential things that can smartprice your account?

3.) What can a webmaster do to overcome smartprising or to avoid smartpricing.

4.) What are the things that cause an acount to be smartpriced. I think this is an important thing to know, what can you do, to make sure you are not smartpriced?

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If webmasters are smartpriced because clicks don't make sale, what about some VERY POOR landing pages that Adword advertisers have. I have seen landing pages that will HARDLY MAKE SALE. Is it fair to hold the webmasters responsible for the click not making the sale?

ASA your help here will be greatly appreciated. Any input will help all of us.

europeforvisitors

2:58 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)



If webmasters are smartpriced because clicks don't make sale, what about some VERY POOR landing pages that Adword advertisers have. I have seen landing pages that will HARDLY MAKE SALE. Is it fair to hold the webmasters responsible for the click not making the sale?

That really isn't an issue, because those ads are served on other sites, too (not just on yours). Google only needs to know--or to anticipate, based on past data--how the ad will perform on your site compared to its performance on other sites.

Erku

3:34 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Two things I am not comfortable with.

Google smartpices accountwise, not site or URL wise. It really needs to be URL-wise not even site-wide, not to mention account-wide.

Let's say you have one account, you are a major company and you have 20 major websites about 20 different projects, totally independent things. Does it make sense to smart-price the entire account?

Another scenario, you have a news site, it covers, health, sports, World News and so on. What do world news ads have in common with Art or health news ads? Not much. People and visitors to those pages are totatlly different, coming to read for different reasons, some are in buying mode, some are not. Also, people are coming different ours, from different walks of life...

So the only fair thing is to smart price account-wise.

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Second: What does an ad's performance in another junk or MFA website have to do with a high quality site?

tim222

3:39 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Since your revenue is at a low point, you have nothing to lose by experimenting. Try less ads per page, more ads per page, different formats, etc.

One thing that helped me was to remove all the image ads and run only text. That might work for you, or the opposite (image ads only) could work on your site.

Above the fold obviously will get more clicks. Some people use heat maps to place their ads. Personally I don't like an ad right in the middle of the page but that area supposedly attracts more clicks.

Green_Grass

3:41 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



As far as I understand, a high quality site for an advertiser is one that converts. For Google, this seems to be all important. We have seen numerous threads on this forum, where many 'quality' (information) sites are suffering due to maybe a chnage in the smart pricing algo recently. IMO Google seems to smartprice on the basis of the 'nature of the site' and the 'potential of the site'.

Here is a controversial tip.. Try buying some adwords traffic. This seems to convert much better than organic traffic as it can be quite targetted (given the control over the ads, you have)and can 'maybe' push you out of smart pricing. Done right, it can help. Done wrong, it can brand your site as an MFA.

Erku

3:59 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I am already tired of making new experiments since there is an opportunity cost. If the experiment does not work, you lose what you already had for 2 weeks. Because it takes about 2 weeks to optimize.

europeforvisitors

4:05 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)



We have seen numerous threads on this forum, where many 'quality' (information) sites are suffering due to maybe a chnage in the smart pricing algo recently.

We know that some publishers are suffering, but we don't know what kinds of sites they have (except in the case of one member who mentioned duplicate content on a thin-affiliate site.)

But you're right about "smart pricing" being based on the perceived likelihood of conversion. Also, it's worth remembering that a "conversion" doesn't have to mean an e-commerce transaction: According to Google's past statements, a conversion could also be a registration, an inquiry, visiting a certain number of pages, or some other "business action" defined by the advertiser. (This is important, because in many cases, AdSense is used to generate qualified leads for a sales force, not to get consumers to whip out their Visas or MasterCards and click an "Order now" button.)

farmboy

4:33 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member farmboy is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Here is a controversial tip.. Try buying some adwords traffic. This seems to convert much better than organic traffic as it can be quite targetted (given the control over the ads, you have)and can 'maybe' push you out of smart pricing.

That suggestion probably needs a disclaimer posted with it. Such as "read the June 1st, 2007 arbitrage threads on this forum before attempting"

Personally I've always thought the content of my site generates the targeted traffic.

If webmasters are smartpriced because clicks don't make sale, what about some VERY POOR landing pages that Adword advertisers have. I have seen landing pages that will HARDLY MAKE SALE. Is it fair to hold the webmasters responsible for the click not making the sale?

I wonder if anyone has any reliable information on what percentage of advertisers track conversions via AdWords? Two points:

1. I opened an AdWords account a while back to learn a bit about that side of the equation. I wasn't offered, suggested, required, etc. to establish any conversion criteria. I don't even recall seeing it mentioned.

I could probably find it if I went looking for it, but that's not the point. How many other advertisers are not tracking converstions in a manner that AdWords has useful data from the process?

2. What about all the MFA sites? Are they tracking conversions? A site with nothing but more ads and links to page with still more ads - are they tracking?

I wonder if it helps or hurts a publisher to generate clicks for an advertiser that doesn't participate in converstion tracking? And if it hurts, how can you avoid those advertisers?

FarmBoy

tim222

4:57 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



I opened an AdWords account a while back to learn a bit about that side of the equation. I wasn't offered, suggested, required, etc. to establish any conversion criteria. I don't even recall seeing it mentioned.

I think ypu're supposed to use Google Analytics to track conversions. But since many advertisers don't use that, apparently Google has other secret methods to determine ROI.

Here's a relevant comment by Google on the topic of Smart Procong. It's vague, as usual, but they do claim that they don't make money on Smart Pricing:

[adsense.blogspot.com...]

LostOne

5:58 pm on Jan 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



We know that some publishers are suffering, but we don't know what kinds of sites they have (except in the case of one member who mentioned duplicate content on a thin-affiliate site.)

I think that's the real key. It's a shame we can't get more information into what types of sites these are. Maybe some hints?

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