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Are We Responsible In Making Them The 5th Richest Guys In America?

Do You Find Yourself Richer Than Before Adsense?

     

Zoomy

2:00 pm on Sep 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Forbes list of 400 richest people in Ameerica is out and Sergey Brin and Larry Page are at no. 5 with net worth of US$18.5 billion each.

I am glad that they are so rich, because I am now wealthier than before. When I first joined Adsense, I earned only a few cents per day for two years. I was so discouraged back then. But I didn't give up. I continue to create at least one content per day. Now, I am earning an average of $2 per day per website and I have 10 websites. The secret is very simple. You need more traffic to your website in order to make more money. How to get more traffic? You need more content.

My income from Adsense will not put me in Forbes' list of 400 richest Adsensers nor will it helps me to buy a Ferrari but it helps me to buy good meals every day.

I hope you guys will not give up on Adsense.

sonny

2:36 pm on Sep 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



this should keep anyone from giving up:
[cnn.com ]

to think I was bussing tables at 17.

europeforvisitors

2:47 pm on Sep 21, 2007 (gmt 0)



I'd be perfectly happy if a lot of other publishers did give up on AdSense. Less competition for clicks = more money for me. :-)

Zoomy

5:34 pm on Sep 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



Yes, you are right. I shouldn't have said that. Forget about what I just said. You guys better give up. It is not worth it to sleep late at night to create content. It is better to make use of your free time to make babies with your wife or to date your girlfriend on weekend.

What's the point of helping those two Googlers to be richest men in America when your own life sucks?

On second thought, I wonder whether more people joining Adsense means more people will advertise on Adwords thus generating more income for Google Adsense publishers.

RandomDot

6:35 pm on Sep 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



AdSense made them rich. Yes, and they did it all by using other peoples contents to advertise on and get there. That's about it. Now say thank you to them for using you as cheap and outsourced labor in a competitive environment which they created to make you work for them. :)

nomis5

8:44 pm on Sep 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Zoomy, which country are you from?

LifeinAsia

9:40 pm on Sep 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator lifeinasia is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Now say thank you to them for using you as cheap and outsourced labor in a competitive environment which they created to make you work for them.

I don't know of anyone who was forced to use AdSense. Everyone who is part of the program is doing it by choice. If you were forced into a life of AdSense by gun-toting Googlers in trench coats, I suggest you contact the local police and file a report.

RandomDot

11:16 pm on Sep 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



I am sorry, I should have said more and not just made a quick opinion without explaining why I think what I think.

The short answer to the original posters question would be "Yes, everybody who used any of googles services and adsense programs in any way was responsible for making them rich"

To elaborate on the previous post I made, hopefully without making it into a noise thread on the forum - then I am not saying that anybody is forced into anything. It is, as you say, peoples own and willing choice if they advertise or not with adsense or any other program or find advertisers themselves or sell links or install adware on peoples computers or make them into zombies and use them for whatever purpose - but don't get me wrong - from what I believe to know and think that I have learned - there is alot more to be earned if you have at least a little reputable and popular site.

Don't get me wrong, AdSense is a nice income for alot of people who never expected to earn anything, and it also gives people in other countries and areas of the world an opportunity to make a huge income, compared to their normal standards (the monetary difference and perception of value) and it has also generated a very nice income for people who otherwise had no means of paying for advertising, and yes, in general adsense has both its benefits, and its downsides.

I am simply pointing out what I believe is a a downside based on my experience - and I was too quick to do it, but what I think is that adsense is in fact using people as cheap and outsourced labor which tries to rank better in google (the system they created) and at the same time monetize their efforts first without giving them credit, by showing their own ads at the serps, and then on the pages which ranks high and have adsense on them - which is the main model for generating traffic to a site.... if you don't rank, you don't get visitors, you don't earn money...google controls it all. This is my argument. I don't like that model, and it matches my model of when people are being used as cheap labor, and outsourced to just hope for the best and serve the companys interests. That's me.

But I am not a fan of google either, so perhaps I am more biased to looking at the downsides of it, its programms and such instead of the more positive outcomes - which it definatly has had and probably will have in the future.

Sincerely, and have fun,

europeforvisitors

1:40 am on Sep 22, 2007 (gmt 0)



This is my argument. I don't like that model, and it matches my model of when people are being used as cheap labor, and outsourced to just hope for the best and serve the companys interests.

Arguing that Google is "outsourcing labor" by making ads available to publishers seems pretty goofy to me. The AdSense concept has always been "earn income from your site," not "build a site to earn income from Google." If some people get it backwards (as you appear to have done), that's hardly Google's fault.

Google didn't invent advertising as a source of revenue. Google didn't even invent advertising networks. If you're a publisher and you decide to place advertising on your pages, you aren't an employee or a contract laborer for the advertiser, the rep firm, or the ad network. You're a businessperson who's selling a commodity: ad space (or, in the case of a CPC network, ad clicks).

Compworld

3:01 am on Sep 22, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Jealously never helped anyone.

loudspeaker

3:40 am on Sep 22, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



[EFV - I am going to send you a private message on this]

Edited: Sorry, jomaxx, I felt the message was too ranty to be posted like that. Thanks for responding, though!

[edited by: loudspeaker at 3:58 am (utc) on Sep. 22, 2007]

jomaxx

3:55 am on Sep 22, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jomaxx is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Google is far from the only game in town in terms of earning money. That part doesn't trouble me, or I'm pretty sure EFV, at all.

As for the traffic, that is a bigger deal. I have an average site and if they decided to ban me outright, my traffic and revenues would drop maybe 70-75%. But this doesn't typically happen. If you pay attention to quality and diversify your traffic pattern (i.e. don't bet your house on getting one page to rank well for one single search term), then it's possible to ride out Google's periodic reindexings with few worries.

[Edit: The post I was replying to has been deleted. Oh well.]

Gibble

4:06 am on Sep 22, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



That goes without saying, anyone who puts there eggs in one basket is just asking for trouble.

DXL

4:29 am on Sep 22, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



There's a funny video I stumbled across on Youtube with over 2 million views in which a few (self-described) Rednecks suddenly decide they don't like Google because it was founded by Russian Sergey Brin. Not coincidentally, they also mention that their Adsense account was disabled the month before because they clicked on their own site's ads and joked about clicking repeatedly on various law firm ads to deplete their account.

Rednecks discuss adsense:

[youtube.com...]

jeffgroovy

7:40 am on Sep 22, 2007 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I love EFV, I second your opinion.

Khensu

9:41 pm on Sep 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Yep, I think all you guys should give up right now!.!.!

Unless your your also high paying advertisters, then you should stick around! ;;;)

Just made Alexa 10,000 and sold my first direct ad for $3K per mo. 4 more and I'll sleep much better at night in the Googleverse. Still just a scratch compared to my Adsense earnings

[edited by: Khensu at 9:50 pm (utc) on Sep. 24, 2007]

DXL

10:46 pm on Sep 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Just made Alexa 10,000 and sold my first direct ad for $3K per mo. 4 more and I'll sleep much better at night

My family's combined income was $1,100 a month, which was about the average for many families in my city (an impoverished one). I consider anyone making 3k a month to be rich. Do you really need 12k before you can sleep better at night?

Khensu

11:31 pm on Sep 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



The more money the better the sleep, US living is not cheap.

Do I need it? No

Do I want it? Yes

It's just entrepreneurialism.

Do I sacrifice my morals for it? No

It took me 10 years to build my product and website with little gain, now it is just time to harvest for all the hard work.

BigDave

11:39 pm on Sep 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member bigdave is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



what I think is that adsense is in fact using people as cheap and outsourced labor which tries to rank better in google (the system they created) and at the same time monetize their efforts first without giving them credit, by showing their own ads at the serps, and then on the pages which ranks high and have adsense on them - which is the main model for generating traffic to a site.... if you don't rank, you don't get visitors, you don't earn money...google controls it all.

I really can't believe that you are saying what I think you are saying here.

Are you bothered that Google puts ads in the SERPs before the positions that results are listed? That they don't have to battle for those positions with the websites?

The way I see it, the Google search engine provides me with more value (visitors) than the value I provide them by allowing them to index my sites. If you don't agree with me I suggest you read up on robots.txt.

Google had to monetize their operation somehow, so they started putting ads on the results pages. Considering that I put ads on my pages, I am in no position to knock this decision. Unlike other search engines, they did not go with popups, animated banners or other annoyances, nor did they sell actually SERP positions. They delineated their ads from the results. Even if I wasn't making money off AdSense, I would not consider their monetizing their SERPs as an unfair tradeoff for providing them "free" content, since they send me the majority of my traffic. I accept that I will never be able to replace the sponsored results with good SEO.

As for the AdSense on my sites, I don't begrudge them their share. For all but one of my sites, I would never be able to attract enough direct advertisers at my traffic levels, and cross site deals wouldn't work either. They make me money (easy money) that I would not be making otherwise.

They earned their money. If you don't like the way they did it, don't partner with them. I don't like the way Microsoft does things, and they haven't made any money off me in at least 10 years. We make our choices.

mattg3

11:57 pm on Sep 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



My family's combined income was $1,100 a month, which was about the average for many families in my city (an impoverished one). I consider anyone making 3k a month to be rich. Do you really need 12k before you can sleep better at night?

For a business you need a bit more than thrown in hobby scraps .

mattg3

12:20 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



I love EFV, I second your opinion.

The hobby market is the main cause for many professional webmasters not getting their due share. As an ecample 1 million mum and pop or retired editor sites have their 30 cent sites up and don't really need the money, they won't take them down.

Adsense is a hobby program for anyone else but Google, even if you make a million from it. It's no business program.

So wildly proclaiming hey shut your site down, it's only good for me, is mere empty posturing. It's not gonna happen ...

One should learn from Google success, exploit free work, pay minimum salaries, pressurise your employees and have good laywers, and put a spin of charity to the whole operation, it's been since centuries the same old recipe for capitalistic success. ;)

The "good honest work pays" line is for the working masses .. :D

europeforvisitors

1:01 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)



Adsense is a hobby program for anyone else but Google, even if you make a million from it. It's no business program.

I think you're letting sour grapes stain your judgment. Tell that to the WASHINGTON POST or THE NEW YORK TIMES. :-)

mattg3

2:12 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



I think you're letting sour grapes stain your judgment. Tell that to the WASHINGTON POST or THE NEW YORK TIMES. :-)

These are how many out of all adsense publishers?

It is largely a hobby program, unless you are already one of the big ones, or one of the very few new big ones.

I don't think I am wrong here, the examples given by Google on the blog on the main website are mostly hobby sites. My distinct impression is that Google wants mainly the committed amateur that wants to earn a bob or two to brush up their pocket money. 3 million amateurs make an awful lot of money for Google, are less plagued by "inferior" commercial motives and work largely for free.

I don't think it could be anything but a hobby, hire and fire scheme for 99% of publishers, the administrative costs for Googe would be tremendous ..

Nah, the non premium part of adsense is intended as a hobby chip in program. Nothing wrong with that, but that's how it is.

loudspeaker

3:09 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

5+ Year Member



mattg3 said: Adsense is a hobby program for anyone else but Google, even if you make a million from it. It's no business program.

EFV responded: I think you're letting sour grapes stain your judgment. Tell that to the WASHINGTON POST or THE NEW YORK TIMES. :-)

EFV - I was actually going to make the same point as mattg3. And it has nothing to do with sour grapes.

Here's the thing: I understand all the arguments (see "vultures at the door" et al, above) for not making the program more transparent. But you have to realize one thing: if you're building a business, you have to plan for the future. You simply can not have the volatility, the lack of meaningful customer service, the condescension and the "buzz off" cuteness that we're accustomed to. What are you going to say to your employees? "Sorry guys, but this month we're taking a 50% pay cut: Google suddenly halved our CPM"? This is a joke then and not a business!

Yet this is precisely what you get with AdSense. You can not be guaranteed any CPM , you don't know how much you're getting paid %-wise or even what the figure is influenced by (your traffic volume? your reputation? Google's quarterly earnings period? fluctuations of Google's stock? Sergey's wife's mood?). There are no human beings to talk to on the other end of the line (well, may be if you're pulling in well over 10M impressions), there's absolutely no accountability of any kind, you are not guaranteed anything, you are invited to make an effort, to trust Google and.. wait.

Which is all fine for hobbyists (look, ma! I wasn't making anything from my site and now I am making $100 per month! Thanks, Google!), but is it acceptable for businesses? The answer is no and I am starting to think this is not a "no, but we're working on that" kind of 'no'. I think this is a no by design. 'No', because fundamentally Google believes more in hobbyism and amateurism than it does in professionals of any kind. As mattg3 said, the latter are too commercially motivated for Google's liking.

Apparently, the only company allowed to build a business with any degree of certainty in this curious eco-system is Google. Everybody else is essentially asked to relax and enjoy the ride.

P.S. Now, as far as your argument about NYT, WP etc - I already pointed out in another thread that the NYTimes is NOT putting AdSense ads above the fold - at least, I haven't seen that. For them, AdSense is simply a way to monetize those people who scrolled all the way down the article. Chump change, compared to double- and triple- digit CPM they're making with their top banners. Directly sold, no AdSense amateurism, thank you very much.

Khensu

3:18 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Yep, I think all you guys should give up right now!

You'all know I was totally kidding. I love you guys! (missing devil smiley)

Well maybe not love in a love sense. More like the funny pathetic kitty down at the humane society with that cute but crazed look on it's face.

BigDave

4:09 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member bigdave is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I don't know what sort of business you guys have been involved in, but in every venture I have been involved in has had all sorts of possible volatility. Is "sorry guys, our eCPM dropped" or "we dropped in the SERPs" any different than "sorry guys, congress cut the order from 3000 units to the 68 that are in progress. Half of you are getting pink slips at the end of the month"

The last I heard, running a business involves risks and unknowns.

mattg3

9:59 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



Depending on one government contract is probably an equally idiotic venture.

The question is not if business is generally risky, but if Adsense is a viable strategy on its own? And it isn't.

That's independent of my task to diversify as a business.

Habtom

10:14 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Are We Responsible In Making Them The 5th Richest Guys In America?

Q is responsible.

Sorry, q is the input name on the index page of google.com

<input title="Google Search" maxlength="2048" size="55" name="q" />

:)

Seriously, we are not responsible for anything.

netmeg

10:23 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member netmeg is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



The question is not if business is generally risky, but if Adsense is a viable strategy on its own? And it isn't.

I don't think anyone's arguing that it is. I don't think even Google makes that claim.

mattg3

10:30 am on Sep 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



I don't think anyone's arguing that it is. I don't think even Google makes that claim.

My personal opinion is that the content network is full of wee MFA publishers that think adsense is their way to fortune and riches .. ;)

They are the ones my comments are directed at.

As long as the Googlecantdowrong fans tell them it's all pure gold dust, they will be around..

This 58 message thread spans 2 pages: 58
 

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