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I am going to OPT-in for content sites!

starting monday morning

     
7:17 am on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member shak is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Getting way too many stickies and emails about why I am so anti-adsense.

So starting Monday morning I am going to opt in to have my ads shown on content partner sites (Adsense).

Shall be doing this with a totally open mind, and will report back 7 days later with results.

My tech taem have been busy writing technology to be able to dig deep into the results of all clicks and conversions.

Worth a try in my opinion.

Should anyone want to sponsor me for this excercise: cash, credit cards and T-Shirts are accepted.

Shak

[edited by: Shak at 7:24 am (utc) on Nov. 14, 2003]

7:23 am on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I look forward to hearing how this works out for you.
7:24 am on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



So Shak in case you decide to opt out after 7 days and remain anti adsense, mind telling them to transfer the funds to my account. I am totally pro-adsense :)

BTW wud luv to know whether you get good results or not, so do post on it.

7:37 am on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



What should be on the T-shirts? AD$ MAKES SENSE
8:02 am on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I can't wait to see the results of your experiment... and from a publisher's point of view, I sure hope they're good :)
9:38 am on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



If we all shell in a penny we can buy him a t-shirt that reads:

I opted in and my ROI survieved to tell the tale.

SN

10:28 am on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator ianturner is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Will be good to get some contructive feedback from the PPC Master.
4:42 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Great idea, Shak! Of course, your ROI will depend on how well your ad is written, but I have complete and utter faith that you write kick-arse, targetted ads ;)

Dave.

4:52 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>7 days
seven days is too short to infere much sense into those statistical mirages.
5:09 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Wow shak, I hope it's play money or a real cheap category :)
5:58 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



seven days is too short to infere much sense into those statistical mirages.

Short, yes. But it is seven days longer than many Adwords advertisers are willing to advertise via content sites, so seven days makes me quite happy. And if it is a success for Shak, perhaps others would be willing to take the seven day test, too.

6:04 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>7 days too short

Allthough i agree that 7 days is way too short to draw conclusions about the success of a ppc campaign, i'd say it's enough if you allready know how your AdWords perform at google alone. You might get a pretty quick picture about the ctr/roi changes if the ads are also displayed as AdSense on content pages too from one day to the next.

6:11 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



I've got some running that are the same advertisers all along, they haven't pulled out yet.
6:28 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>they haven't pulled out yet

The issue really depends on the market imo. I can imagine some markets / topics / keywords are just more attractive to low quality webmasters and professional content spammers than others.

For my main sites i'm pretty sure, i wouldn't see any fraud or ctr dilution through running the adwords as content ads too. The market i target with these sites just doesn't bring enough money to attract AdSense spammers.

Otoh, i recently launched a new site in a totally different topic and i promote it through Adwords on serps only - it's an affiliate site for the shopping season. I bet, i'd loose money on content pages with that.

Shak, are your adwords in a high bids, spam attractive field? Do you somehow know on which sites your ads will be shown?

6:37 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Shak,
Me too waiting for your positive responsee :)

Here's what I got out of my research and experimenting.

Tried 7 days : Exact match got great response and good ROI

Tried 7 days : Pharse match got good response but ROI decreased by a small number, but the volume took care of overall profit.

Tried 3 Days: Adsense in early days of it's release didn't get good response hence stopped it, but perhaps it was too early to put some figure.

Tried 5 Days : Adsense again this time the ROI was pretty high and I must say my overall spend through adsense is = to my spend through Exact match.

It is almost 8th Day of Adsense I must say I am really happy with the returns, the other factor could also be Chrismas season.

My 2 cents if during the month of nov and dec historically if ur industry did well, then you cannot ignore adsense it got to be there right up in marketing spend :)

6:49 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)



I've got some running that are the same advertisers all along, they haven't pulled out yet.

I've got a number of advertisers whose AdSense ads have been on my site since I joined the network in June. Mind you, some of these are established offline businesses that have long experience with media that range from THE NEW YORKER to Sprinks. They obviously don't make decisions about media on the basis of 7-day tests. :-)

For what it's worth, I think most complaints about AdSense and other "content ads" are from owners of affiliate sites who use PPC as a way to generate commissions on third-party sales. Their mindset and business needs are much different from those of, say, an airline, a travel agency, or a merchant. They're more like people who used to advertise mail-order widgets with classified ads in POPULAR SCIENCE, and who defined their success in terms of the ROI on each month's ad. Obviously, that's one way to run a business, but it isn't the only way to run a business...and people who make a living with affiliate sites (or by selling mail-order widgets in POPULAR SCIENCE) shouldn't make generalized assumptions about the viability of "content ads" (or magazine advertising, for that matter) based on their own limited perspective and experience.

I'll be interested in hearing about Shak's experience with AdSense, but I'd be even more interested in hearing what Virgin Atlantic, Rail Europe, Hotwired, Expedia, and other big mainstream advertisers have to say. Unfortunately, they probably won't be sharing their experiences here, so we'll just have to rely on what we can extrapolate from their ongoing use of content ads. :-)

6:57 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I think Shak is doing it right. Results can vary so much that only running your ads on content sites can tell you if it is a good fit for you.
7:14 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>only running your ads on content sites

... got me thinking - will he show his ads on content sites ONLY or ADDITIONALLY? Is this possible at all?

<Yidaki goes to check his adword account ...>

<added>
Nope, it's a must to show the ads on google's serps. Didn't know that.

Show ads on Google search and:
X search sites in Google's network
X content sites in Google's network

I wonder how significant the difference will be - if any at all. Can't wait to see the results. Hopefully Shak will publish some fraud friendliness factor of the topic too. Otherwise it'll be pretty difficult for us to weight the results.

[edited by: Yidaki at 7:23 pm (utc) on Nov. 14, 2003]

7:16 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Hehehe, I can save you the trip. An adsense only campaign is not possible.

Edit: I meant only allowing your ads to be shown in content sites will let you know if adsense works.

7:26 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member shak is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



blimey...

you guys have been busy.

I promise to share all data that will be in my hands, CPC, CTR, ROI, along with types of site and whether any breaches of adsense TOS were found on partner sites.

cant say fairer than that.

Shak

7:27 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>will let you know if adsense works

Yep that makes sense. Unfortunately. ;)

7:29 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

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Sounds brilliant, Shak!

>CPC, CTR, ROI, ... any breaches of adsense TOS

Carefull though, there are AdWords TOS too. Don't know if they allow naming specifics.

7:33 pm on Nov 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member shak is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Carefull though, there are AdWords TOS too. Don't know if they allow naming specifics.

well aware of them, and shall triple check before getting my ass whipped by Google, but hey, what other choice is there.

Shak

12:02 am on Nov 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator ianturner is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



Don't do anything outside of TOS - it isn't worth losing a good rep with Google to carry out an experiment.
12:04 pm on Nov 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



<<shouldn't make generalized assumptions about the viability of "content ads" (or magazine advertising, for that matter) based on their own limited perspective and experience. >>

I would say the same for you Europe.

Fact- You have never advertised using adsense.
Fact- You have little to know idea what types of sites are running ads except your own
Fact- You have no idea whether or not your advertisers are impressed with the adsense simply because they are still running ads. It can take larger companies a long time to determine what is working.

<<For what it's worth, I think most complaints about AdSense and other "content ads" are from owners of affiliate sites who use PPC as a way to generate commissions on third-party sales. Their mindset and business needs are much different from those of, say, an airline, a travel agency, or a merchant. >>

How did you come to this conclusion?

Every time someone brings up the slightest POSSIBILITY that adsense may not deliver for advertisers you go into your mantra about your wonderful, editorial packed site with ads from MAJOR advertisers, that even advertise in the New Yorker. :)

The point is, many here have actually tried content ads (not with affiliate sites) and received poor results - in terms of (poor conversion, no time spent on site or newsletter signup)

I realize that many of you make your living now through adsense and other affiliate programs, but let's be fair about this. All publishers think their sites are wonderful places for ads.

Your post is insinuating that you do not consider WW members that advertise with content ads opinions viable. It is insulting to say the least.

BTW, I can show you some of the worst auto generated bulgarian spam sites showing the exact same ads as your site. The advertisers must be happy as they continue to advertise with them.

5:54 pm on Nov 15, 2003 (gmt 0)



Your post is insinuating that you do not consider WW members that advertise with content ads opinions viable. It is insulting to say the least.

You may be inferring that, but I certainly haven't insinuated it.

I do think that WW members tend to represent a fairly narrow segment of the advertising market: namely, owners of affiliate sites and relatively small entrepreneurial e-commerce sites. That's why we see so many posts by advertisers who obsess over immediate ROI. Their opinions certainly deserve to be heard, but it's also important to look at the larger picture before making assumptions about the viability or the future of PPC content ads. And it's important to remember that what's right or wrong for one advertiser may not be right or wrong for another.

And by the way, when I refer to the kinds of advertisers who run ads in the back of THE NEW YORKER, I'm not necessarily referring to companies whose ads appear on my site. For example, my site doesn't have any ads for home elevators (one of the examples I've mentioned) or upscale gardening gear (another example) or, as far as I know, clothing (another example that I've used). So let's not turn this discussion into a personal jihad against me or anyone else.

You're correct in stating that I haven't bought AdSense ads. I'm currently a publisher, not an advertiser. But I spent more than 20 years in advertising and direct marketing, working for accounts that included major airlines, hotel chains, computer manufacturers, software vendors, big-city newspapers, and even a few retailers. So, when I comment on mainstream advertisers and direct marketers, or about specific issues such as lead generation vs. immediate ROI, I'm not just speaking from a publisher's point of view.

Finally, I'd suggest that, instead of attacking other members, we should stick to discussing the issues in an intelligent, dispassionate, and reasonably friendly way. Attacking the messenger when you don't like the message is unproductive, which is another way of saying that it has a poor ROI. :-)

7:38 pm on Nov 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



I agree with europe, i have major advertisers displaying ads on my site and more major players are displaying ads not less. If you look at sites like forbes.com which charges $190/CPM how could you not get a better deal from advertising on adsense?
7:58 pm on Nov 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



"blimey" What exactly does that mean?
8:04 pm on Nov 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator brotherhood_of_lan is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



>"blimey"

something they say in ye englande i believe ;) like "by gum" "cor blimey" or "bloody nora" ...one for dictionary.com ;)

8:44 pm on Nov 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



>"blimey" What exactly does that mean?

Doh, i know this since ages (yesterday).

It means the same as damn. A friendly swearing.

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