Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 18.208.159.25

Forum Moderators: mademetop

Message Too Old, No Replies

Should I trust an SEO company that guarantees top placements?

     
9:59 pm on Jul 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 10, 2003
posts:443
votes: 0


I am a web marketer and I did a pretty good job getting all our product pages listed on google and other SEs. We even rank high for most of the the terms related to those products.

But today I get a call from a SEO company. They say that they guarantee top 10 placement for 80% of the keywords that I would choose. Even highly competitive keywords.

I asked if this would require changes on our code or content. He said no. I asked if they worked with people inside the SE companies. He said no.
So I insisted that I don't believe in any offer of top ten placements for competitive words if it won't require changes to my site or anything like that.

He insists that they have a software and can do that, and they guarantee the results.

What do you think about it? Any advice?

Send me a private message if you would like to know the name of the company, in case you had a bad experience with some of these companies.

Thanks a lot for helping.

10:01 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Administrator from CA 

WebmasterWorld Administrator bakedjake is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 8, 2003
posts:3883
votes: 61


I would ask him what they do when 100 people start using the same software in the same industry.
10:03 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 29, 2001
posts:2945
votes: 0


Sounds like BS.

If you really want to see him prove it...let him apply his "tricks" to a throw away domain. Then you'll see what he's doing.

10:07 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Sept 24, 2001
posts:562
votes: 0


You can never give any guaranties in this business. Ore at least not any guaranties that can be of any use to anyone. I will also guarantee you top placements if I get to choose the keywords and what SE to achieve these placements in. But if you are in a slightly competitive marked this is not possible and all competitive markets are very dynamic so how long will you keep this top placement.

If they give guaranties they are hiding something or not giving you the hole picture

10:09 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 19, 2002
posts:3505
votes: 82


imho and i mean no disrespect to any of our members who are in the game

any seo company that is cold calling on the telephone offering such a deal is not offering what you think (maybe they will just bid on a few keywords on day) if they can genuinely get top natural serps rankings for highly competative keywords then word would spread quick and they wouldn't be having to cold call prospective punters.

10:19 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 10, 2003
posts:443
votes: 0


What is weird is that they say woudn't make changes to code or content.
So how would they optimzie the site?
They say they have a software to do that. But what in the world could that software be doing to get those results?

The thing is that he made me do some searches for pretty high competitive terms like Lingerie, Eletronics, and Discount laptops, and they were #1 or #2 for them.

That could be luck. Or maybe they just got these people as clients after they were already top results.

When they say guarantee, I mean money back guarantee.

10:21 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 29, 2001
posts:2945
votes: 0


topr8,

Have you ever worked for an SEO company? Specifically, one that is just starting out?

My guess is no. If you had, then you would know that your statement is completely false.

Business is tough, and the word doesn't just spread quickly, as you suggest.

When a business is just starting out, the majority of the time is spent on the phone trying to SELL the business to potential customers. Even if the product or service will sell itself, you have to get someone to listen first.

Cold-calling and sales isn't just for crappy services and products.

10:28 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ogletree is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 14, 2003
posts:4319
votes: 42


Cold calling is only used by scam artists. If they can guarantee top position for any word then they would be so rich they would not need to be cold calling. If anybody can get number one for 80% of the kw's they choose they would be really rich.
10:36 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 29, 2001
posts:2945
votes: 0


Again, pure rubbish.

If they wanted to do what you said, they wouldn't be SEO firms, they would be affiliate marketers. SEO firms need clients. To get clients, sometimes you need to get on the phone and sell.

<added>

I should note that I don't work for an SEO firm. I simply don't like members posting false statements.

10:40 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 19, 2002
posts:3505
votes: 82


agerhart i completely agree that cold calling is not just for fly by nights, i do it myself but not in the sector we are discussing in this thread.

... but cold calling making solid seo guarantees is suspect although not neccesairily false, good link text from a few sites is more than enough for success in a lot of keywords i should think, so it is entirely possible to do what they are claiming given that they control enough sites to link out from.

word spreads slow, yes, but it does get about eventually just like for all business - and like most business, the best at selling are successful rather than the so called 'best' at doing,

...however i would disclaim that i was just passing my opinion based on a number of calls (and discussions with the salespeople) i have received myself and the results that other people i know have had from responding to cold calls in this sector.

i am not in the seo business myself and have never employed a seo company.

ps. i stand corrected that i did overstate my case in my earlier post

10:55 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 18, 2003
posts:745
votes: 0


The only way this SEO could improve your rankings without changing your code is if he has a bevy of relevant, high pr, high quality links that he could point to your site using the various keywords.
11:50 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ogletree is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 14, 2003
posts:4319
votes: 42


I guess I should add "In my Opinion" I wanted to add that before but I did not want to open word and see if I spelled Opinion right. I have approached people about SEO in the past but that was after they had posted they wanted somebody to do that.

I'm sure there are some legit people out there making cold calls but because of the volume of bad ones it would be hard for anybody to know which ones are which. It is just safe to assume they all are.

I just don't like cold calls it is just more SPAM. There are just too many people in the world selling things for SPAM to be legit in any form. If every legit business called me I would have to get a new phone number. It's rude.

11:56 pm on July 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 29, 2001
posts:2945
votes: 0


>>>>It is just safe to assume they all are.

No, actually, it isn't.

2:15 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:July 20, 2002
posts:933
votes: 0


I really agree with Agerhart. If the SEO firm is new they may not have a huge client list but may have a lot of talent and ability that needs to quickly get put to use.

Also, there are occasions when you see a target market which could easily be dominated by an existing player that just isn't using the right approach. That company wouldn't approach you out of the blue if they aren't aware of SEO.

Those opportunities are worth the cold call/email if you are really confident of what you could do for them. If they accept and you do what you claimed you could I imagine they would chime in on one of these types of posts as being in favor.

It's true that most/many SEO firms don't need to do things like this to get business but with even some of the most successful ones the fact is that their clients don't go around telling everyone they meet "hey these guys will get you to the top!". Why would they? Many SEO firms don't want to attract attention by going after top SEO related keywords also.

Ogletree,
Just use google for a quick spell check. Works 90% of the time for me.

2:17 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:July 20, 2002
posts:933
votes: 0


Or use IMO or IMHO ;-)
2:19 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Administrator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Sept 21, 1999
posts:38256
votes: 115


>guarantees top placement?

Sure, give me enough money and I will buy kw's at Overuture to make you #1 too.

3:57 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 19, 2004
posts:505
votes: 0


The company that I currently work for paid quite a bit of money to an SEO company for site optimization. They, of course, had similar guarantees to begin with. The company did not deliver on any of their promises and did very little work to improve rankings. In the end our company fought to get its money back never happened. I suppose there are legitimate SEO companies out there. However, I think one should ignore promises and demand action/proof PRIOR to payment. If an SEO company is confident that they can deliver they should have no problem with a now, later payment schedule.
4:03 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:July 3, 2002
posts:1590
votes: 0


Cold calling is only used by scam artists.

Actually cold calling is used by most growing businesses in this sector - just like anything else some of them are scam artists. There's nothing wrong with cold calling per se - it is just the products that some people are trying to sell that are questionable - and they would still be quiestionable even if they didn't cold call.

Google Adwords sales teams do a lot of cold calling - does that make them scam artists?

With regards to guaranteed top placement - yes, it's a scam. Go for an SEO company that will increase your ROI, grow your targeted traffic from search engines and help you to convert that traffic into sales.

4:59 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Nov 5, 2002
posts:413
votes: 0


guaranteed top placement- I could do that too

"purple parrot toenail clippings"-cost $50
"cheap hotels"-cost $2M

6:10 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 13, 2003
posts:95
votes: 0


They say that they guarantee top 10 placement for 80% of the keywords that I would choose. Even highly competitive keywords.

I bet I could do this - but there's one gotcha.

I'm gonna bet you can't just give him 20 keywords - and expect them to get top 10 for 16 of them.

I think for most industries there's a couple dozen super-competitive keywords and maybe a hundred or so semi-competitive.

If they require a pool of 1000 keywords to choose from - I could imagine them getting in the top 10 for 800 of them. It's just those 800 might yield 2% of the traffic of the other 200.

6:52 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 13, 2002
posts:14935
votes: 493


I am a web marketer and I did a pretty good job getting all our product pages listed on google and other SEs...

>>>Should I trust a SEO company that says guarantees top placements?

Ok, so someone maybe is cheating... People cheat at work, love and play. Not a revelation. It's in the air we breathe.

I heard this tonight:
Being happy is an act of resistance.

7:52 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member

joined:Jan 31, 2004
posts:710
votes: 0


If A SEO can't get you a top ranking than whats the point of getting a SEO? That's what most customers are thinking, but don't know how hard it really is to get up there. And that's why SEO firms are saying this and you can't blame them.

For the SO CALLED SEO that says he can get you a top ranking for any keyword with out touching your site content it's a lie, unless he can get you links and a lot of them too. I would not do it because they called you without you asking and they are likely nothing less than a scam.

They or no one should call or email you without you asking for it! It's THAT EASY, DON'T CALL ME!

8:19 am on July 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member topr8 is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 19, 2002
posts:3505
votes: 82


Sure, give me enough money and I will buy kw's at Overuture to make you #1 too. - brett

is pretty much what i said

maybe they will just bid on a few keywords - topr8

but no-one shoots him down i notice!

8:12 am on July 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Junior Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Feb 18, 2004
posts:81
votes: 0


It's never too late to add your two pence.

Don't trust them. They can't guarantee top placements in search engines because they can't guarantee that algorithms and rating systems will not change hugely over night.

They're not going to optimise your site. They're going to do something else - and typically this means doorway pages. I suppose this might not the be the case but it doesn't help me trust them.

(and I don't like/trust the cold calling)

8:53 am on July 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Moderator from US 

WebmasterWorld Administrator robert_charlton is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Nov 11, 2000
posts:12388
votes: 409


I think Brett has this one nailed. I was waiting for someone to say it as I was reading down the thread. They're buying Overture positions and relying on your ignorance to think these are search engine results. How do they word their contract?
4:48 pm on July 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from US 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ogletree is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Apr 14, 2003
posts:4319
votes: 42


If A SEO can't get you a top ranking than whats the point of getting a SEO?

Getting more traffic and sales. That does not always mean high ranking for big terms. If you are a small company with no national exposure or name recognition and a low budget the only way to get high ranking for top terms is to game the system. Now if you want high converting very directed traffic that can be done and promised. There are plenty of medium to low traffic terms that will get you business.

5:00 pm on July 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from GB 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 13, 2003
posts:1054
votes: 3


The first thing to do is search for this SEO companies site yourself. On terms you expect to find their site on. "Search Engine Optimisation" (or optimization!) for example.

If they do not appear in the positions that they promise you (often top 10), then tell them to forget it.

If they can't do it for themselves, they quite possibly can't do it for you either.

This gets rid of thousands of these callers.

5:06 pm on July 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member

WebmasterWorld Senior Member agerhart is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member

joined:Mar 29, 2001
posts:2945
votes: 0


PCInk, that couldn't be further from the truth.

Some of the largest, and most successful SEO companies don't show in the top results. Many companies don't have time to continuously work on battling their site to the top for "SEO" while still working on their clients sites and running a business. Who has more time to work on gaining rankings for "SEO":

1) the pure spam company who has 1 client that they tricked into signing up
2) the SEO company that has a full roster of clients, including fortune 500 companies that require them to visit their headquarters, make presentations, etc, etc.

What you should do is ask for examples of performance. I am sure they will be happy to show you some sample rankings for clients.

---------------------------------

Honestly folks, if you don't really know what you're talking about, then don't say anything. That is the second or third time in this thread that someone has blurted out something that is completely false. It is comments like this that hurt the business and the real companies out there that are trying to make it.

5:30 pm on July 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Preferred Member

10+ Year Member

joined:Oct 10, 2003
posts:443
votes: 0


It's funny, how people change the subject from the original post all the time. But that's ok.
5:35 pm on July 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Senior Member from GB 

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month

joined:Aug 13, 2003
posts:1054
votes: 3


> Some of the largest, and most successful SEO companies don't show in the top results.

Some of the largest, and most successful SEO companies don't GUARANTEE TOP PLACEMENTS (but they do promise a better ranking).

Isn't that the title of the thread (trusting a SEO company that says GUARANTEES top placements)?

This 39 message thread spans 2 pages: 39