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anchor text question?

     
9:56 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

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if, say, "this product" was the keyphrase you were going for, but all of the inbound links (and internal links) use "this product online" or something along those lines, would this still improve your SERP for "this product"?
6:02 pm on Apr 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Yes you still get credit, but you don't get the full strength of the credit as you would if it was the exact phrase.

But on the other hand you do get credit for "this product online" too...

3:53 am on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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has it been confirmed somehow that you don't get the full credit?

I'm really curious about this

8:09 am on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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do some testings and see what the results are. You won't be too surprised after reading the 2nd post in this thread. ;)
2:02 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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As with everything else related to SEO, it basically comes down to keyword density.

And yes, I have proved it to myself on my own sites time and time again.

3:42 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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by complete chance, our target keyword density is within half a percent of our real competitor..

and they're spread out through meta/title/body/etc.

we have the same pagerank (although we have nearly twice as many backlinks showing in google).

we're #54 on the SERP, they're #1.

4:18 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Keyword density is just one of the hundreds of SEO factors. You cannot say you're #54 because of the keywords density.

Link popularity and keywords themselves will be more important than keyword density.

4:33 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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While you are probably slightly better using "this product" than "this product online" for searches on [this product], I would guess that you have a lot less competition for the searches on [this product online].

If adding the online moves your result from page 4 to page 5 on the bigger search, you really aren't losing much in the way of traffic on that search. But you could conceivably add a fair amount of traffic from the lesser search where you end up at the top of page 1.

Going for a diversity of lesser keyphrases is a lot better for your long term business too. That way you aren't ruined when you are dropped from the top of the big money phrase.

4:45 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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"Going for a diversity of lesser keyphrases is a lot better for your long term business too."

Hear hear. When people check out their own referer logs, most quickly conclude that they should be paying attention to other phrases and not just to one "holy grail" phrase.

6:33 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I am new to this forum. This is first time i am reading that keyword density is for link text also. If this is true than google keeps the field only for seo. This is against the natural linking.Hundreds of links with the same link text should be alarming.I feel that in their efforts to fight spam search engines are going to do something about this also.
6:56 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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most quickly conclude that they should be paying attention to other phrases

Yep. My money phrases make up less than 5 percent of my total traffic. (and they are popular money phrases which I am ranked top 10 for)

7:05 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Here is a scenario I have wondered about in the past. Let's say your main KW phrase is "widgets online". If a site has 100 inbound links with anchor text saying "widgets online", is this really an advantage over an identical site that had all their links with the anchor text of "online widgets"? The reason being the KW densities are identical and word proximity within the text is also identical. In other words, while word order plays a role on page, does it also play the same role in anchor text?
7:20 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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yes, I understand phrases bring in a lot- we get about 6,000 unique people a day from google, and all of it's from phrases.

however, the big one that would dramatically help us IS this keyword.

part of the reason behind us getting the "online" (not the actual word, just an example) tagged on is pretty simple: it's part of our site's name.

"the keyphrase" + "online" is our site's name.

so almost all of our links we get are for "the keyword online" and not "the keyphrase"

how exactly could I go about improving my SERP for "the keyphrase"?

"the keyword" gets almost 500,000 searches according to overture, the next most popular is 112,000, and it drops off very dramatically from there.

7:45 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Hear hear. When people check out their own referer logs, most quickly conclude that they should be paying attention to other phrases and not just to one "holy grail" phrase.

So true. It's more of a vanity thing to get in the top few on a big single keyword on your topic. In truth most people find the site through more specific searches. But I must admit I love being up there on that single keyword. :)

8:51 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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how exactly could I go about improving my SERP for "the keyphrase"?

Do your basic site SEO first, to make sure that your site will meet the needs of the bots and the users.

Then, in my opinion, the best way to win that big keyword is to work on picking up those other keyphrases that contain that keyword, and to also work on getting the synonyms covered.

There certainly are quicker ways to the top, but there really aren't any better ways.

"the keyword" gets almost 500,000 searches according to overture, the next most popular is 112,000, and it drops off very dramatically from there.

Wow, the second best has 1/4 the number of searches? I would definitely be shooting for that first. You could pick up a dozen of those less searched for terms a whole lot quicker than you could even get to the first page on "the keyword". Then when you start adding synonyms and other related words (which are not suggested by overture) you can really start racking up the traffic.

If you were a site that sells raincoats, you just might think of your product as only "raincoat" (12798) and look at the next one down "womens raincoat" (1437) as being way down there.

Well, there is also "rain coat" (3172), "rain jacket" (2045), "rain gear" (9562), "overcoat" (1409), "waterproof jacket" (1104), "rain suit" (2578), "foul weather gear" (760), "rain slicker" (879) ....

I could pretty easily pick up as much traffic from that list as I could with several months of work on the single "raincoat" search. And while doing that, everyone else will be shooting for that big single word search making it a whole lot easier for me to pick up more traffic on the rest of the searches. And every one of those other searches that you pick up will help with your position on "keyword"

8:52 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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I get found by hundreds of unique/diverse searches every day. Frankly, that is the easy part. Make a deep site, organize it so major topics have a page with the title, have more than a little relevant text on the page (so all the word variations are actually on the page), and have anchor text to these pages with the appropriate wording. The easy diverse keywords are no match for my most important single keyword. I wouldn't trade all of them for the #1 ranking for my main keyword, but I'd sure give up my 90% least frequent searches for that single #1 ranking.

The point though is that it isn't either/or. Target your main page for your main term. Target other pages for other terms.

My experience is that with anchor text of "word1 word2 word3", you are at a very major disadvantage if your main keyword is word3. Two words seem fine, but the third drops off a cliff. In the example, where the main keywords are the first two, I wouldn't worry about it so much, but obviously you could make your internal links just the first two words while accepting your external links will have the three words.

9:33 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Is it just me or didn't we hear such specific suggestions from GoogleGuy since a couple of days?
10:52 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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Going for the “secondary” keywords is not just safer in the long run (in case of a sudden change in SERPS), but they are also easier to position and maintain.

I’m also sure that if you track your customers’ “referral keyword” and navigation path within your site, you’d discover (as I have) that most of the “sales converting” words are often not included in the so called “money keywords”, which by the way, have a very accurate name… not because they produce tons of money, but because they usually make you spend tons of money. :-)

11:01 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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But in a lot of cases it is the big money keywords/phrases that generate the traffic. The lesser keywords just dont compete.

And it is appears to me that unless page rank is quite high, (5+), it is quite difficult to get Google to pay much attention to more than a single keyphrase per page.

So sometimes it seems like the practical thing to do is to optimise for a single popular keyword/phrase. Otherwise you get nowhere.

11:46 pm on Apr 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

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we get 99% of our traffic from secondary keywords/keyphrases.

see, the thing is, I've done everything I can think of, but I'm still not up there:

my keyword densisty is similar to my competitor
I have more content pages, by far, than my competitor
I have more backlinks (which include the keyphrase, and then an extra word on the end, usually)
I have the same pagerank (many sites in between me and the #1 have a PR as much as 2 lower than us)
the keyphrase I'm going for is spread out everywhere in the pages- title, body, in bold, in italics, in alt text, in meta tags, etc.

I just don't know what else to try