Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.167.82.170

Forum Moderators: martinibuster

Message Too Old, No Replies

Has anyone gotten dropped from trading too many reciprocal links?

What are the limits of a traditional link exchange?

     

Trey03

11:54 pm on Jun 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hello everyone,

First time poster... long time reader...

I would like to know if anyone has heard of or gotten dropped/banned from the serps for trading too many reciprocal links.

I have over 700 (good neighborhood) reciprocal links and have finally gotten some decent traffic. I have expanded my directory to include semi/related sites but feel somewhat guilty doing so. My competition uses other blackhat seo techniques so I dont feel too bad. To reach my search engine goals I estimate I need around 1500 to 1800 recip links.

Is this too many links? Will I pop up on the serps radar?

I appreciate your feedback

Crush

6:33 am on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



no, it never stops. He with the most links wins. That is the rules. I am glad we put so many resources into linking. It really pays off.

robotsdobetter

7:15 am on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Just don't build the backlinks to fast and you will be fine, otherwise you MAY get kicked out.

aris1970

8:29 am on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



To reach my search engine goals I estimate I need around 1500 to 1800 recip links.

If I were in your position, I would keep the 700 backlinks you already have and try to get few ONE-WAY quality backlinks (i.e. 50). I bet you would get much better positions than having only recip links.

IMO, it's difficult for reciprocal links alone to ensure the top SE positioning for a site. Mixing recip with - even few - quality one-way links is the best way to success.

Just my 2 cents...

Trey03

3:35 pm on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Thank you guys for your valued feeback.

Robotsdobetter,
Would attempting to get 300 recip links in a month too fast (popping up on the serps radar). Im just a little concerned because one of my white hat competitors said I was taken it to the extreme. For my black hat competitors... well i dont really care what they think...

My black hat competitors use hidden text, duplicate content, hidden links etc and have held top ranking positions for years. I can take them on with recip links and have for about 60% of the top search keywords. They definetly have felt my presence and have grown concerned. I guess I feel a little guilty because I see my competitors face to face on a monthly base.

Also, Im the only one trading links.

Aris1970,
Attempting to get one-way links is quite difficult without paying $. Would you suggest triangular links?

Thanks again guys

robotsdobetter

8:50 pm on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



Would attempting to get 300 recip links in a month too fast (popping up on the serps radar). Im just a little concerned because one of my white hat competitors said I was taken it to the extreme. For my black hat competitors... well i dont really care what they think...
This would really depend on how old your web site is, if it's new I would cut down on the link building.

Attempting to get one-way links is quite difficult without paying $. Would you suggest triangular links?
Have you tried writing articles and then allowing others to use it with a link back to your web site?

Eltiti

9:38 pm on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



without paying $

You may consider paying a few $$ to get listed in some of the more respectable (and older) directories! (Personally, I'd go for one-off payments or annual at most, but some people report that they are getting good results from "link renting" on a monthly basis. It may depend on the competitiveness of the industry...)

aris1970

11:48 pm on Jun 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Aris1970,
Attempting to get one-way links is quite difficult without paying $. Would you suggest triangular links?

If you are able to play with triangular links, I would certainly suggest doing so. Mixing reciprocal links with triangular ones as well as few one-way quality ones (even paid) is - IMO - the best linking strategy for success.

Best wishes
Aris

Trey03

2:00 am on Jun 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've just had an idea and was wondering what others would think about it.

I've spent the last 8 hours creating a database of sites whose links pages are PR 5. Ive collected and screened about 200. Now I have a PR 5 homepage with PR 4 link pages. Im going to put 5 links per page.

Do you think if I sent out the link requests with a list of 50 PR 5 sites that trade links would more people link to me?

Also... Now if they reply and appreciate the list... do you think they would give me a one way PR 5 link for the entire list of 200.

Thanks in advance

joeduck

3:06 am on Jun 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



It's an important question. I just had a site loose a lot of traffic about 2 months after I traded links with a friend who also has a large, high ranked site. Not sure if this was the problem but based on SE engineer comments at the WebmasterWorld conference I've concluded this was unwise (we are taking them down) because:

* Our sites did not share enough relevance
* very high number of reciprocals
* not enough "user value" to link in this case

The nice thing is that the SE's are trying to seek quality user experiences, so if you worry about how users will view the linking you should have a good answer to the SE process.

Crush

8:50 am on Jun 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



"very high number of reciprocals "

This one. Do not cross link sites, page for page. You can do site A to B the site B links to a site C. Never cross link A and B as you are asking for trouble.

aris1970

9:52 am on Jun 26, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



* Our sites did not share enough relevance
* very high number of reciprocals
* not enough "user value" to link in this case

Crush is very right; Do not interlink heavily your sites. IMO relevance means no problem IF you provide 1 or 2 one-way links from siteA to siteB; and DOES help as well.

Im going to put 5 links per page.

Do you think if I sent out the link requests with a list of 50 PR 5 sites that trade links would more people link to me?

Also... Now if they reply and appreciate the list... do you think they would give me a one way PR 5 link for the entire list of 200.

I have never done this but I don't think you will have much success in getting one-way links this way; you can try though and have a real experience :)

Do you mean that you have setup many link pages and intend to put 5 links per page? Generally I would suggest you publish also some content on the link pages and not just 5 links with 5-6 word description for each link; this will help your ranking as well.

doninatorweb

10:41 pm on Jun 27, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Hi

i would suggest you that you just divided your links into diffrent categoried and make category page.
it will help to get 1500 to 2000 reciprocal links.

[edited by: martinibuster at 8:00 pm (utc) on June 28, 2005]
[edit reason] Please, no personal info like emails or URLs. Thanks. [/edit]

Langers

11:49 am on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I've spent the last 8 hours creating a database of sites whose links pages are PR 5. Ive collected and screened about 200. Now I have a PR 5 homepage with PR 4 link pages. Im going to put 5 links per page.

I rekon you would be better of compiling a list of sites that rank well in your chosen SE(s) for your chosen keywords.

martinibuster

2:13 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Why compile a list of the well ranking sites? Aren't they the ones least likely to trade links?

I think the sites on page ten of the serps would be more likely and just as effective, if not more.

aris1970

11:33 pm on Jul 6, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I think the sites on page ten of the serps would be more likely and just as effective, if not more.

Hi martinibuster, do mean that links from page ten would be more effective as well? Maybe I am missing something here...

martinibuster

12:35 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



>>>do mean that links from page ten would be more effective as well?

Why not?

I don't understand the obsession with obtaining links from sites that already rank well. They don't need you and generally don't want to trade links with you.

It's the same with finding link partners through Dmoz. Sites in Dmoz are sick to death of link requests and site owners generally don't want to trade links with you.

aris1970

11:43 am on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Why not?

I don't understand the obsession with obtaining links from sites that already rank well. They don't need you and generally don't want to trade links with you.

It's the same with finding link partners through Dmoz. Sites in Dmoz are sick to death of link requests and site owners generally don't want to trade links with you.

Well, effectiveness has nothing to do with how easy or achievable is something!

The fact that getting links from sites that rank on top is much harder is true. But this does not mean that if you get them, their effectiveness is LESS than that of other worse ranked sites! I think the problem is the word "effective" that you used, anyway.

BTW it's not obsession for me, but still the best way to rank high :)

martinibuster

5:06 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



still the best way to rank high...

Not true.
My point is NOT the ease of attaining them, that's a side note. When I say effectiveness, I'm talking about ranking well. Let me make this more explicit for you.

What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter where those sites rank. What matter is how many links you have, and the anchor text used. The sites on page ten of the serps are as effective for helping you to rank well as those on page one.

As a side note, I am saying that if you want to maximize your effectiveness in ranking, go for quantity. In order to find quantity, start digging up backlinks where you are more sure to receive a positive response.

Murdoch

5:16 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



As a side note, I am saying that if you want to maximize your effectiveness in ranking, go for quantity. In order to find quantity, start digging up backlinks where you are more sure to receive a positive response.

I'm not sure if I agree with you completely here. While I do believe that the page rank is meaningless for the quality of a link, isn't it better to link to a site with good content and a fewer amount of outbound links than, say, a link farm with next to no content at all? Or is it that a link is a link is a link?

martinibuster

5:24 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



isn't it better to link to a site with good content and a fewer amount of outbound links than, say, a link farm with next to no content at all?

Which site is more likely to have a link farm? The one with lots of backlinks and is ranking well or the site that hasn't done any link development and is ranking poorly?

Which site will have more outgoing links, the site that has done a lot of reciprocal exchanges and is consequently ranking well, or the site that has exchanged two or three links and is ranking poorly?

Murdoch

6:34 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



Which site will have more outgoing links, the site that has done a lot of reciprocal exchanges and is consequently ranking well, or the site that has exchanged two or three links and is ranking poorly?

Exactly my point.

So when choosing sites to link to, we should choose the one that only has a few links but content relevant to yours, correct? What the initial question was getting at was we should still be weighing in on the sites we choose, not just choose any old site because it will give us a link. Although pagerank is not a good indicator of whether or not it will improve the weight of your link, you should still put some thought into the sites you are linking to, and not just linking to a site because it's a link. I was agreeing to your first point but I still think some links should be avoided (link farms) while others should be pursued (individual, content-based sites).

martinibuster

6:49 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



What the initial question was getting at was we should still be weighing in on the sites we choose, not just choose any old site because it will give us a link.

I wasn't even addressing that point, so we're talking about two different things.

On a related note to your point, a Google engineer at the New Orleans Search Conference, in response to a question about recips, responded negatively about the usefulness of link directories for internet users. At one point he asked if anyone actually uses them, and if not, then what are they good for?

The Google engineers were pretty much framing all their answers around, "Is it good for users" and if the answer couldn't be squeezed into that box then you pretty much knew where they stood on the issue.

If you are interested in picking up good information about search engines, do consider attending the WebmasterWorld Search Conference. Don't rely on others to spill the beans on the forums. There's lots more good information when you attend in person.

Murdoch

7:45 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



I wasn't even addressing that point, so we're talking about two different things.

Well that's good. I thought I was going crazy (I realize I didn't phrase the question too well)

If you are interested in picking up good information about search engines, do consider attending the WebmasterWorld Search Conference. Don't rely on others to spill the beans on the forums. There's lots more good information when you attend in person.

Luckily the job is sending me to the SEO conference in San Jose in August, so I should only be about 20 or so miles from the Googleplex. I feel like I'm visiting the Keebler elves factory to learn their delicious cookie secrets!

ken_b

8:03 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ken_b is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



Sites found beyond Page 1, 2 or 3...

Those sites may be easier to get a link from. But sites ranking beyond page 2 or 3 can often have very good content. They can make good link targets.

That makes them good for your visitors.

And I'm going to guess that they might also be more likely to link back to you without being asked to do so, once they find a referal from your site in their logs or stats.

That gives you a natural reciprocal link with no obligation on either side. If "natural reciprocal linking" has any value beyond the link itself, it's probably in the time span between when the links get found by Google.

Managing that time span might be harder to do with an arranged reciprocal, because both parties may want the link as fast as possible.

A natural, unrequested, reciprocal link might take a while to appear.

Can Google tell the difference, I don't know. But I'd guess that if they can, natural reciprocals are not likely to have a negative effect no matter how many you have.

AndAgain

8:15 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

10+ Year Member



"He with the most links wins."

Not True!

martinibuster

8:24 pm on Jul 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster is a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



"He with the most links wins."

It's true, that's why blog spam is so effective. How long they win is another matter, though. ;)

 

Featured Threads

Hot Threads This Week

Hot Threads This Month