homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.205.254.108
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Home / Forums Index / Yahoo / Yahoo Search Marketing Pay Per Click Advertising
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: werty

Yahoo Search Marketing Pay Per Click Advertising Forum

This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34 ( [1] 2 > >     
New Features Help You See how Your Traffic Performs
YahooPete




msg:3987597
 9:11 pm on Sep 10, 2009 (gmt 0)

Hey Everybody,

Just wanted to let you know of some account enhancements we announced this morning…the first is the new Ad Delivery Report, which shows both the sources of your traffic--whether it be Yahoo! or some of our partners--but also, how that traffic performs. Combined with one of our analytics options, you can track measurements such as impressions, click-throughs, conversions and return-on-ad-spend. You can also filter the results by account, domain and tactic.

You access the Ad Delivery Report by clicking on the “Reports” tab in your Sponsored Search account, or learn more about how to use it in our Help Center [help.yahoo.com].

The second change is the launch of what we announced to advertisers via email on August 14: The expansion of adjustments we make to click charges, based on our assessment of the performance of traffic coming from sources within our distribution network. This includes deeper discounts on click charges for lower-performing traffic, and potential premiums on click charges for higher-performing traffic.

Based on our analysis, we expect that most advertisers will see click charges drop or remain unchanged as a result of this change, while a small fraction of advertisers may experience an increase in click charges.

If you have any questions about these enhancements, please post them here and I’ll try to provide answers.

- YahooPete

 

Murfman




msg:3987733
 2:12 am on Sep 11, 2009 (gmt 0)

Solid move and about time. Now, just raise the 500 domain exclusion ceiling and we'll be in business!

boplicity




msg:3988246
 1:12 am on Sep 12, 2009 (gmt 0)

YahooPete,

I have been getting a significant amount of traffic that shows up in my personal logs as being referred from click.ideo.net -- which appears to be a domain parking service. Guess what? After LOTS of traffic, it converts at ZERO PERCENT. That's 0%. Zip. Zilch. Nada. I've blocked this domain in the domain blocking filter, but I keep getting traffic.

How do I block this junk traffic?

ppc_newbie




msg:3989461
 1:32 am on Sep 15, 2009 (gmt 0)

boplicity, you'll probably have to get your rep to do a special traffic block with that. I had a couple that they eventually blocked, and issued a credit for.

The new report is interesting, but, I wish they had done one grouped by Publisher to aggregate all those parked domains into a few accounts that could be blocked by publisher.

werty




msg:3990858
 11:24 am on Sep 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

The thing I do not get is why Yahoo! is so greedy that they are missing out on the large money that happy advertisers could bring.

On all the blogs and boards out here people complain of all this crap traffic and the trend is the same: Reduce ad spend with Yahoo!, and spread a negative message about them.

If they would actually kill off some partners, or better yet let the advertiser opt out of this crap network and just get pure Yahoo.com traffic spends would go up.

The part that blows my mind is that the partners that destroying Yahoo's PPC reputation, are actually making more per click than Yahoo! itself.

Yahoo should cut it's losses for a month, add the one feature (allowing us to actually opt out of partners) we all have been begging for, for years now, and watch their advertisers spends, CPCs and eventually their earnings go up.

While they do the above, they should be able to treat all partners like low performing (discounted clicks) until they can prove their traffic converts and then use the new features you are describing here.

Makes no sense.

RhinoFish




msg:3990916
 1:11 pm on Sep 17, 2009 (gmt 0)

werty, many others, including me, have said (and screamed) the same thing about Y for years - they refuse to listen.

this one thing is the largest differentiator between Y and G.

it's a huge, festering black eye on Y.

all i can say is that they've been told how we feel, so they must feel this is just a business decision that they must make.

i do think it must be hard to hang your hat on that belief as G kicks your tail year after year.

for most of my clients, i tell them it's a garbage pit, don't bother. at best, they're kmart - compared to other available choices, they've got dirty aisles and much poorer selection.

and here they're rolling out yet another "improvement" to put the job of sorting out the garbage in our hands... gimme an on/off switch, then i'll shout out yahoo. at this point, anything less, i find insulting to my intellect.

RhinoFish




msg:3991527
 12:01 pm on Sep 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

apparently some folks do get an on/off switch, read the first paragraph here:
seekingalpha.com/article/162163-is-ebay-switching-search-network-partners

RhinoFish




msg:3991528
 12:02 pm on Sep 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

or perhaps maybe it's referring to auto generating the 500 blockers...

in any case, the whole setup is suboptimal for advertisers, to put it mildly.

aeiouy




msg:3992963
 4:47 pm on Sep 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

The position doesn't even make sense from a financial one.

I have campaigns I can not afford to run on yahoo! because the surcharge of having to carry this third-tier traffic makes them not profitable.

Not to mention advertisers end up making less money which means less money to spend and grow in the future. Clearly Yahoo! does not view themselves as in partnership with their advertisers but instead in partnership with their bankers.

Things like this arbitrary and low numbers to block domains just don't make any sense.

If yahoo does not want to allow us to opt out, at least allow us to create our own groups of tiers of "partner sites" so we can properly bid on them. Having it so we just get discounted bids doesn't cut it.

A non-converting site is worth $0 no matter how cheap you make the clicks. Anything above free would be too much for a site that brings only bad non-converting traffic.

Fishing4Horses




msg:3994553
 12:43 am on Sep 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

I predict Yahoo support employees will come to loathe the day the Ad Delivery Report was unveiled. This report has no doubt opened the eyes of thousands of advertisers who had no idea they were being ripped off to the extent that they are by the Yahoo sponsored search partners. Yahoo has to be getting crushed with complaints of bogus traffic coming from their valued partner sites that are engaged in the burgeoning domain monetization industry. Eventually I have to believe they choke on the influx of complaints which will force them to do something.

Anyone care to guess on an end result driven by all of these newly clued-in advertisers?
A) Yahoo finally offers a yahoo.com only option.
B) Yahoo increases the number of blocked domains allowed.
C) Yahoo does nothing and continues to wither on the vine.

I would like to feel optimistic and think "A" could be the outcome. We're talking about Yahoo though, so who knows.

Fishing4Horses




msg:3994896
 1:54 pm on Sep 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

boplicity:

Did you get anywhere with Yahoo with the ideo.net traffic? I filed a case with them over the same site but am still waiting for a response. In the interim I have found there are domains appended at the end of the referrer url, and if you block the appended domain you stop the clicks... at least from _that_ domain. Of course ideo is back two days later with another domain, and the cycle continues.

I wasn't being entirely sarcastic in my earlier post when I used the term, "domain monetization industry." This is from the ideo.net home page, they actually refer to themselves as a leader in the domain monetization industry. This translates, to me anyway, as saying, "We're the tops when it comes to fraud!" I wasn't shocked to see this company is owned by a private equity firm. It only seems natural that private equity parasites are involved in this kind of business.

Fishing4Horses




msg:3994945
 2:48 pm on Sep 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Just occurred to me, has anyone tried blocking the domain parkers via .htaccess? I put these lines of code in my .htaccess file just now, we'll see if this stops the "traffic" coming in from ideo.net.

RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_REFERER} ideo\.net [NC]
RewriteRule .* - [F]

An explanation can be found here - [tamingthebeast.net...]

Murfman




msg:3995087
 5:27 pm on Sep 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

By doing that, you may be blocking them from your site but you're not blocking them from clicking the ad.

Fishing4Horses




msg:3995120
 5:58 pm on Sep 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Does Yahoo record it as a valid click (and charge the advertiser) if the referrer never reaches the landing page url associated with an ad? They will be landing on a 403 forbidden access page. I imagine I will find out soon enough, I'm sure ideo will be back.

Murfman




msg:3995278
 10:13 pm on Sep 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Given their track record on traffic quality over the past several years, do you think a little thing like a 403 page is going to stop them from charging you? In their eyes, they are completing their end of the deal by delivering traffic. What you choose to do with it is not their responsibility.

Tropical Island




msg:3996301
 5:58 pm on Sep 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

After advertising with Go/Overture/Yahoo since 2002 I can tell you that my experience with them has been totally negative from a moral point of view.

They will do anything they can to maximize their bottom line with absolutely no thought to their advertisers. They only time they react is when you catch them with their pants down.

Their corporate attitude has been immoral from the early Overture days. If anyone wants to take the time & go back through the WebmasterWorld archives to say 2004, 2005 or 2006 you will find many threads with damaging negative remarks.

Nothing has changed. My spend with them is now almost nil. I was keeping my UK programs running because many of my clients come from there however I have even suspended that campaign.

This is now a 3rd tier company & without the bailout from MS would probably not last another year.

bears5122




msg:3998872
 9:18 pm on Sep 30, 2009 (gmt 0)

The problem with blocking a site like ideo.net is that 10 more pop-up next week. It's like trying to catch your tail monitoring this and often times is just not worth the time or effort.

The reps I've talked to all want this feature added as they are the ones who constantly have to hear the complaints about it. But Yahoo! execs still think this is 2002 and that businesses have nowhere else to go for traffic. Perhaps if they catered to their customers more, they wouldn't have had to turn themselves into AOL 2.0 this year.

chrisuk




msg:3999111
 8:34 am on Oct 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

To be fair a lot of Y! publishers still wish it was 2002 also, believe me they do get leaned on, keeping all sides happy is clearly the toughest part and I don't think people are happy. As a consequence of TQ scoring the publisher side has become a very unstable revenue stream from a longevity perspective which probably breeds a grab it while you can culture and I don't think Y! quite saw that coming. Advertisers have better analytics so they complain more and it seems no one can strike the right balance.

beren




msg:3999398
 5:29 pm on Oct 1, 2009 (gmt 0)

"a significant amount of traffic that shows up in my personal logs as being referred from click.ideo.net"

Ahh! I've been fighting that affiliate for weeks now. Shows up in all my YSM accounts, and adding it to the excluded domains list does nothing. I complained to YSM but they had some dumb excuse about how it takes time after you put a domain on the list until it stops send clicks.

And ideo.net is now the same as other YSM affiliates. YSM has been doing pretty good at cutting off referrers when I add them to the blocked list. ideo.net seems to have some special exemption.

RhinoFish




msg:3999931
 2:23 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

it's a lot of money in this arbitrage scheme, for both the doer (MoxyM) and the doee (Y):
paidcontent.org/article/419-media-rollup-firm-tsavo-to-take-over-moxymedia-both-backed-by-american-/

their flavor of arbitrage explained, plus history:
annrbrocklehurst.com/2007/08/last-winter-just-after-unknown-guelph.html

G already poked them in the eye with a stick:
paidcontent.org/article/419-online-publisher-geosign-splits-up-investor-getting-cash-back/

and the VC funders of it, get burned (alongside us advertisers):
wellingtonfund.com/blog/2007/06/25/has-the-deal-of-the-year-become-a-nightmare/

Y, we're not asking you to be the Internet Cops here!

or even asking you to do good for good's sake!

What we are saying is in your own self interest.

WE WILL ALL COMPETE TO PAY TOP DOLLAR FOR QUALITY TRAFFIC. YOU ARE HURTING YOURSELF BY DILUTING YOUR TRAFFIC WITH GARBAGE AND NOT ALLOWING US TO OPT OUT OF IT.

Arbitrage is just a cool french-sounding word for garbage.

Or should I say garbaaaahhhj.

Leosghost




msg:3999950
 2:54 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

Actually it means decision making or deciding or conflict / dispute resolution..the ref in a match is called the arbitre ..pronounced .."ah beetr"

the GOOG sense is financial related and means hedge betting ..more or less ..

garbage is dechet(s) ..pronounced dayshay

yahoo partners is IMO .."licensed scamming" ..( some things and concepts dont translate word for word so the nearest real meaning would translate to the slang term for "rip off merchant" which would be "ripoux" ( or pourri ( putrid ) in "verlan" ( which is reversed language slang )..

ripoux is pronounced reepoo ...

apt :)

note for francophones ..pronunciation guides are approximate to take into account American accents ..HTH :)

bears5122




msg:4000749
 6:10 am on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

To be fair a lot of Y! publishers still wish it was 2002 also, believe me they do get leaned on, keeping all sides happy is clearly the toughest part and I don't think people are happy. As a consequence of TQ scoring the publisher side has become a very unstable revenue stream from a longevity perspective which probably breeds a grab it while you can culture and I don't think Y! quite saw that coming. Advertisers have better analytics so they complain more and it seems no one can strike the right balance.

Understandable, but I believe legitimate publishers should be upset with the fact Yahoo! allows these low level publishers to operate so freely. They should also be upset that Yahoo! doesn't give their advertisers more control over where their ads appear.

When an advertiser realizes that most of their traffic is coming from garbage sites that aren't converting, they'll just pass on Yahoo!. They'll take their money to MSN or Google where they can have control and don't have to fight the bad traffic. That hurts the good publishers who are missing out on these advertiser dollars. Advertisers have better analytics, and it's allowed them to differentiate between good and bad publishers. Unfortunately when you can't control which ones your ad appears on, you throw the baby out with the bath water.

bears5122




msg:4000751
 6:18 am on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

And ideo.net is now the same as other YSM affiliates. YSM has been doing pretty good at cutting off referrers when I add them to the blocked list. ideo.net seems to have some special exemption.

It's not a special exemption, it's just that ideo.net gives out their feed to tons of sites to do what they please (they are a domain monetization service).

Yahoo's domain blocking tool is built to block ads based on what site they appear on. So if you set it to block ads on ideo.net, you won't see them on that site.

The problem is when ideo.net gives their feed to every domain in their system. So xyz.com signs up and adds the code to their site. The Yahoo system sees that ad as being shown on xyz.com, and not on ideo.net. Therefore, just because you blocked ideo.net doesn't mean you blocked all the millions of sites they've given their feed out to.

But here's the rub. xyz.com has all their ads redirect through ideo.net. Therefore in your logs, you see the traffic coming from ideo.net and not xyz.com. It makes it impossible for you to block the site or tell where any of this traffic is coming from. It's an unfortunate loophole that has been there for years now.

Unfortunately, Yahoo isn't really search marketing anymore. It's parked domain marketing. That is where a good percent of their traffic comes from these days. Traffic that can't really be blocked. Google seperated this type of traffic and allowed users to block it. Yahoo currently doesn't want to give you that ability for obvious reasons. All I can suggest is sending in a suggestion to them about it, although I'm sure they've heard it a million times already.

Zamboni




msg:4001476
 3:28 pm on Oct 5, 2009 (gmt 0)

Hey Yahoo, It's easy! Make your advertising opt-in instead of opt-out.

I ran an ad delivery report for a week, I've got 666 sites showing impressions, many new non-sensical domains sending click-throughs from feed.example.info . If I was being generous I would advertise on about 20 of the 666 from the list.

RhinoFish




msg:4006186
 12:34 pm on Oct 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

"Ad Placement Option"
secureweb.rustconsulting.com/inreyahoosettlement/

See VI here:
secureweb.rustconsulting.com/inreyahoosettlement/Pdfs/Notice.pdf

RhinoFish




msg:4006188
 12:35 pm on Oct 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

A. “Ad Placement Option”
As a result of the Action, Yahoo! has agreed to develop and offer a new ad placement option (referred to in this Notice and in the Settlement Agreement as the “Ad Placement Option,” but which may have a different name once launched) that will enable Yahoo!
Ad customers to control where their Yahoo! Ads appear. The Ad Placement Option will allow Yahoo! Ad customers to specify that their Sponsored Search ads should be displayed only on websites and other Internet properties owned or operated by Yahoo!, and the websites of certain “Premium” distribution partners. In response to plaintiffs’ claims in the Action, Yahoo! Ad placements by “Premium” distribution partners will be subject to limitations. Please review paragraph 22 of the Settlement Agreement, which is
available at www.inreyahoosettlement.com or from the Claims Administrator, for complete details about these limitations.
Yahoo! has agreed to make best efforts to launch the Ad Placement Option as early as the first quarter of 2010, but in no event later than September 30, 2010. Before the Ad Placement Option is launched, Yahoo! will post additional information about the Ad Placement Option on the “Traffic Quality” portion of its website (http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/trafficquality/index.php).
Yahoo! will maintain the Ad Placement Option for at least two years from the date of its launch, subject to the condition discussed in Paragraph D below. Should Yahoo! decide to remove or materially alter the Ad Placement Option after the two-year commitment, Yahoo! will provide individual notice by email or postal mail to its then-existing Yahoo! Ad customers of the planned
alteration or elimination of the Ad Placement Option. The notice will explain why the Ad Placement Option is being eliminated or altered, and will remind its customers that they may discontinue advertising with Yahoo! at any time.

bears5122




msg:4006488
 8:00 pm on Oct 13, 2009 (gmt 0)

Good find, although the addition of "Premium" distribution partners still leaves me a bit skeptical.

And it really takes them 4 years to add this functionality? That alone should give let us all know what they think of their customers.

RhinoFish




msg:4006832
 12:36 pm on Oct 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

surprised more people didn't post...

Y got sued for the trash and has announced a settlement that includes them giving us the option to turn it off.

big news for me.

i look forward to spending some money with Y in the near future!

ppc_newbie




msg:4006888
 2:38 pm on Oct 14, 2009 (gmt 0)

So far trying to read through it I can only find a $20 refund for companies that are no longer in business.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all I see is:
- They are going to allow us to target Yahoo & premium only
- No $$$s compensation for the $1000s I have been forced to pay for the garbage traffic that they have been sending from those other partner sites

I'll have to wait untill I get the lawyer to take a look at the settlement, but it looks like I'll be opting out to leave my options open for some possible cash settlement in the future.

PGBird




msg:4011612
 4:19 pm on Oct 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

It would be encouraging if indeed Yahoo follows through with a credible option for ad placement control. Based on years of conversations and endless email to the poor reps who take the heat for Yahoo ineptness, I would not plan on seeing this settlement inspired change being in place until next fall, but whenever it comes it should offer a much better + for advertisers than we have had to date.

I know that it must be a behemoth task for Yahoo to actually make their search advertising a legitimate value to advertisers, but I only see two choics for them should they wish to remain on the map: become more Google-like or wither into obsecurity and become a run of the mill second tier. I am very interested and potentially very excited about the new possibilities at Yahoo. Google is in a dangerously powerful position right now and they have no halo's over their heads either. If Yahoo can actually force legitimate competition in this space, it can only benefit advertisers.

This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34 ( [1] 2 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Yahoo / Yahoo Search Marketing Pay Per Click Advertising
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved