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Yahoo Rubbishes Google's Usability
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msg:3267832
 3:01 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Poor usability is the main reason behind the limited adoption of Google's services such as Gmail and Google Talk, according to Jeff Bonforte, senior director of real-time communications at Yahoo.

"[Google] definitely is lacking in usability," Bonforte said in a meeting with reporters at Yahoo's corporate headquarters.

"They don't have this intimate connection in usability with consumers that Yahoo has had for 10 years. When it comes to consumer applications, no-one is more successful than Yahoo hands down.

Yahoo Rubbishes Google's Usability [vnunet.com]

 

trinorthlighting




msg:3267834
 3:06 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Wow, yahoo is attempting a smear campaign?

whoisgregg




msg:3267852
 3:22 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Online application providers should focus on limiting the number of features they deliver, he argued. Where adding features will alienate users, Yahoo found that removing them can increase the time that users spend using the application.

Taking longer to get something done isn't a usability increase, Jeff.

ByronM




msg:3267860
 3:25 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I think Yahoo has finally recognized the tool/utility model that Google is to immature to recognize (as a company folks).

Google is quickly moving into what it isn't and Yahoo is finally realising it didn't like where it went.

Competition folks. Its Grrrrrreat!

seth_wilde




msg:3267869
 3:36 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Now if Yahoo could actually make an "intimate connection" with advertisers, maybe they could make some real money. Panama's usability isn't anywhere close to Adwords.

RockSolidWes




msg:3267879
 3:44 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Google is good for advance tech users. That is why AdWords is best for advertisers like me. But for the average person, I think Yahoo! applications have the intimate connection that most people like.
For example, I love gmail and I recommend it to anyone. However, I started a few accounts for other people and they wanted their Yahoo email accounts back because they did not like it for some reason.
At first it was because gmail did not have a delete button. When I told them they recently added the delete button they still did not want to switch because they just like yahoo mail. Maybe they are used to yahoo mail, but I think gmail lacks friendliness for the average user.

Namaste




msg:3267969
 4:48 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

er, well, Gmail is actually rated the easiest to use mail app by a majority of users that have tried all three.

AhmedF




msg:3267972
 4:52 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Im sure the near-decade headstart doesn't help at all :)

skweb




msg:3267993
 5:11 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Oh these Yahoo folks are so delusional! Looks like none of them has ever plotted their stock price against that of Google.

Hobbs




msg:3268023
 5:36 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Well, Yahoo needs something to brag about since they are getting no where fast in their attempts to offer an actual real search engine.

But on their applications front, yes, my 62 year old mother still insists on having Yahoo as her start page and refuses to use Gmail.

Does my mother qualify as an expert on usablility? No, it just happens that Yahoo was there first, and some people don't like to change too many things.

Oh and Yahoo is a major hit with females in general too, now somone please tell me why.

iblaine




msg:3268044
 5:56 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Seems like a weak argument because google has very few commercial applications compared to Yahoo. Given Yahoo's diversity with hotjobs, travel, personals, etc there is no much of a comparison. Gmail is great but it's just one thing.

gibbergibber




msg:3268056
 6:11 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

It's just not true, Gmail is very easy to use. Even my parents use it, and they're relatively technophobic. The same goes for Google Documents.

As noted above Google does do a lot fewer features than Yahoo, but the features Google does do are amongst the easiest to use on the internet.

I think this statement is probably directed more at shareholders than people who actually Google and Yahoo products, hence the "10 years of experience" stuff.

ByronM




msg:3268066
 6:18 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Seems like a weak argument because google has very few commercial applications compared to Yahoo. Given Yahoo's diversity with hotjobs, travel, personals, etc there is no much of a comparison. Gmail is great but it's just one thing.

Thank you thank you THANK YOU!

The irony of the hatred google fans have for anything that isn't google is that Google wouldn't exist if it wasn't for yahoo. Google wasn't a name until yahoo made it one (by using it as its serps).

Without Yahoo Mail, gmail never would have seen the light. Without Yahoo news Google news never would have been a glimmar.

Funny so many people think google is the great inventor and Microsoft always copies then, but the simple fact of the matter is both Microsoft and Google are out to copy what Yahoo has done or steal market share in markets Yahoo couldn't hold its iron grip.

I'm getting to the point where i actually liked the internet better before Google existed. It was raw, it was real, it was people connecting with people. Even the way google runs its business it forgets on very important thing - Informaiton = People, you can use technology to manage information but you can't use technology to manage people. Technology doesn't know fear, passion, love, hate, anger, dispare but Google thinks it can solve those "human feelings" with a faceless algorythm and one day that will come back to haunt them.

marketingmagic




msg:3268111
 6:48 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

whatever, yahoo is years behind Google, talk is cheap.

Hobbs




msg:3268118
 6:54 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Thanks ByronM for explaining that one,
So people stick with Yahoo out of nostalgia and gratitude.. Makes sense.

AhmedF




msg:3268130
 7:00 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Byron, I think your bitterness is showing through :)

Webmail as a concept is interesting, but it seems like an obvious one. My memory may be going off, but did not Hotmail come *before* Yahoo! Mail? Google News is an automated news-gathering service - Yahoo had that before?

ergophobe




msg:3268142
 7:09 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

Frankly, I could not agree more - I loathe gmail (and I consider myself a reasonably advanced tech user or whatever label someone used above). I set up a cron job send me a daily backup of a database to my gmail account, but for a while there was a problem and it was not sending the dump. So I went through 200 emails from the past to delete the ones with no dump and keep the ones with one. In gmail, if I delete or archive a message, it spits me back out into the inbox instead of taking me to the next message. It was loathesome and onerous trying to keep my place and navigate through my mail.

At least for me, usability of gmail, in my opinion, is absolutely atrocious and I have given up using all of my gmail accounts. Yahoo mail is nothing inspiring, but I use it as a spamcatcher address and whenever I make an online purchase and it does a great job as far as I'm concerned.

Plus, gmail takes forever to load and do anything (like the new Yahoo beta webmail), which I thought was just a problem on my end. Then I got a new machine and sitting here on a Core Duo machine on DSL it still tries my patience.

Tom

ByronM




msg:3268143
 7:12 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm not bitter, just find it ironic.

Yahoo news consolidates differently than Google news, people still prefer yahoo news 10 to 1. Human intervention has its advantages.

Yahoo mail was established about the time Hotmail made sense. Hotmail was one of the first out the door for sure but to dispell those myths that being the first means you automatically wins, yahoo is living proof.

So yeah, keep you google goggles on. I love how people jump the gun and forget what history has taught us.

Google has some great products, but they're not the be all end all sooo many of you lust after. This is after all the "Yahoo" search forum. If you want to lust after google click a few links up :)

RockSolidWes




msg:3268155
 7:24 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

I recall this thread,

Yahoo Beats Google for Time Online Hands down:
[webmasterworld.com...]

Remember, the argument he makes is based on web services.

AhmedF




msg:3268176
 7:40 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

So - the only similarity between Yahoo News and Google News is that one is manual (Yahoo News) and the other automated (Google News).

In what reality do you live in which makes you say that Google News is inspired by Yahoo News? Because they talk about News? Amazing!

And I never said Hotmail won. The fact is that Hotmail was the first large-scale webmail service. So if you are going to say that Google copied Yahoo when it came to webmail, perhaps you should say that both just copied Hotmail.

I don't have Google goggles on. The fact of the matter is that the Yahoo director compares their ~10 year old service vs Google's not even 3 years old service.

I think you may be confusing inertia with prefer and the Y! director is confusing it with usability.

poster_boy




msg:3268185
 7:50 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

This is after all the "Yahoo" search forum. If you want to lust after google click a few links up :)

I think most posts on each respective forum (at least the SEM focused ones) bash rather than praise. So lusting may actually be more appropriate on the opposite forums only. :)

To lob in my 2 cents, I couldn't agree with this statement any more enthusiastically:

Panama's usability isn't anywhere close to Adwords.

And, yes.. while it just launched... it was also 10 years in the making and over 6 months late.

ByronM




msg:3268206
 8:17 pm on Mar 1, 2007 (gmt 0)


So - the only similarity between Yahoo News and Google News is that one is manual (Yahoo News) and the other automated (Google News).
In what reality do you live in which makes you say that Google News is inspired by Yahoo News? Because they talk about News? Amazing!

People seek out news to make decisions. Yahoo simply does it better. Google has some automated alerts but any business leader knows you need more than alerts on topics that may fit your enterprise. Same goes for other decision makers and people who use news services. Yahoo simply does it better. Not just from the consolidation phase but useability. Everything from My.yahoo.com to RSS to there TUBES and other pieces let me use Yahoo News much better (and more reliably than google). Google is catching up but still relying on technology to do what humans do better - interpret & categorize and the yahoo service simply feel more "human" for lack of better word. More character, more visual, more integrated, more readily available, easy to find and easy to digest. Not requiring someone to understand logic/queries/pittifull interface design.

Not to mention Yahoo news has better syndication and partners that allow me to contribute to it better without it being some black box. I can write a press release and know where it stands on Yahoos wire - without being a Google geek and all things google who the heck knows how Google will run with it. While its often there because of the SEO tactics of companies that run the wires its not as straight forward as that easy to use yahoo news


And I never said Hotmail won. The fact is that Hotmail was the first large-scale webmail service. So if you are going to say that Google copied Yahoo when it came to webmail, perhaps you should say that both just copied Hotmail.

I didn't say you said anything, the general consensus was gmail only had its tiny market share because of less time in existance. By that logic yahoo's market share would be that of googles or at least closer to it. If gmail is really that much better where is the marketshare and how does age have any impact like others have stated?


I don't have Google goggles on. The fact of the matter is that the Yahoo director compares their ~10 year old service vs Google's not even 3 years old service.

Gmail is 3 this april. Its traction is simply not what people expected. Perhaps Yahoo mail simply fits how people use email. Whats so hard to accept about that?


I think you may be confusing inertia with prefer and the Y! director is confusing it with usability.

Whats the difference? Google is built entirely on intertia, otherwise they're 80x over stated. Yahoo has peaked, google hasn't. Inertia means zilch if you don't have traction and that is where the Y! director is making the connection for its not simply providing the service but making people part of it.

People read yahoo news, play yahoo games, subscribe to yahoo groups, find hotjobs, search for autos, shop their malls and so much more that google doesn't do and wants to do so badly but thinks "computerized search" will solve.

Technology doesn't solve everything and one day google will find out. Its all about people and creating a service they will use and you can't take that away from Hotmail, Yahoo Mail, yahoo news or any of the other Y!, MSN services or competitor Services that keep users involved.

m0thman




msg:3268475
 12:02 am on Mar 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yawho?

techrealm




msg:3268520
 12:44 am on Mar 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yahoo mail has come along way, I remember when I got my first Hotmail account well before MS acquired them and then I remember when I got my first USA.net and then Yahoo mail accounts (among many others). All of them were very easy to use and not so cluttered by interactive graphical ads. Such was the draw for me... Gmail fit into that model as well when they rolled out.

Odd thing is that I know people at my offices use Yahoo allot more than Google (just by watching routers) MSN is not even a blip for being a default page for browsers but despite all the time that people spend on Yahoo services. When it comes to substantial ROI for our internal AD campaigns yahoo doesn't even come close to quality leads gained from Adwords. Most of my customers are not looking for small ticket items so that may the case as well the items are more technical another tick for Google, but I imagine if I were selling electronics, fashion or lower priced widgets or impulse items Yahoo may do allot better for me. Just a guess...

Olney




msg:3268537
 1:01 am on Mar 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yahoo still has the majority in Japan. Truthfully I don't know many Japanese with a gmail account here. For some areas the KISS simple attitude works. As mentioned women love the intergrated stuff. You go to Yahoo, you check the news, you search, you check your mail.

thegreatpretender




msg:3268585
 2:11 am on Mar 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

Many people I know still prefer to use yahoo over gmail because of yahoo messenger.They just want to receive email at the same time use their yahoo email as messenger's user name. If google adds more features on gmail messenger, like chat rooms where people can find people with the same interests to chat with, it may become as popular as yahoo's and people who loves chatting online will use it as well.

adfree




msg:3268762
 8:39 am on Mar 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

Google as an innovation engine is not to be confused with a convention leader. G draws early adopters, Y! is great for folks enjoying standards.

Both have their right of existence and helped each other in the purest way of healthy competition.

Granny using My Yahoo! makes as much sense as the one-man-startup business guy loving gmail for his thousands of conversations to be easily searched for and stacked together.

Y!'s primitive attack disregards reality in many ways, not only by comparing oranges with apples. Who woke up and had to follow suit after G introduced contextual advertising, 2GB mail accounts, video search, satellite imagery, etc.

Let alone countless of mind-blowing visionary inventions Y! wouldn't even dare to dream about?!

Both suck for the wrong target group, both are stunningly great for the right user. Disrespecting and alienating the millions and millions of happy G users propably doesn't really demonstrate leadership within the tech community and way beyond (as even grandma age 62 depends on technology nowadays).

This is especially stupid because of the very nature of modern web users who are (to the most part) loyal to their needs and much less to one company, meaning: a fair share of users pick offers from either side of the aisle.

Yahoo! impressively visualized the barking dog after being hit without knowing where the punch came from.

gibbergibber




msg:3268862
 11:15 am on Mar 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

--I'm getting to the point where i actually liked the internet better before Google existed. It was raw, it was real, it was people connecting with people.--

You're blaming Google for the commercialisation of the internet?

Are you nuts?!?!?!

The internet became commercialised because it became easy for anyone to access it, and that was thanks to flat rates, cheap broadband, and cheap PCs.

-- Technology doesn't know fear, passion, love, hate, anger, dispare but Google thinks it can solve those "human feelings" with a faceless algorythm and one day that will come back to haunt them. --

ALL search engines use an algorithm, including Yahoo's. It's the only way to regularly index billions of web pages.

There aren't enough humans in the world to keep a manual index up to date.

ByronM




msg:3268994
 2:14 pm on Mar 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

You're blaming Google for the commercialisation of the internet?

In way yes. There was a poin in time before adsense came along that many people simply did what they did out of the pure sense of sharing there ideas and thoughts. Now much of that is plastered with ads, interstitiatls and MFS sites who steal content from another. Is it googles fault? not entirely, but they sure didn't do anything to stop the internet from becomig "craptastic" because it obviously made them a LOT of money.

You see every day i surf the net and find a site i think has what i want but is plastered with adsense ads and a clone of another site linked to another where the only purpose is to deeplink and sell PR and push ads on.

I just didn't see that before google created VALUE in that.

yes.. others are following in googles foot steps becaues it makes a lot of $$$. Yes its not entirely googles fault but at one point in time the internet wasn't about democratizing who can make money but the free access to information (that in turn could not only make money, increase awareness, bring communities closer, network people, challenge ideas, invite critical thinking).

There are sites out there that still do it on a sensible level to pay for there bandwidth and such i do remember a day before google and i long for those days of how "raw" it was.

Just my 2 cents.


The internet became commercialised because it became easy for anyone to access it, and that was thanks to flat rates, cheap broadband, and cheap PCs.

All of that happened without google. Infact google wouldn't exist if others handn't commoditized the technology they use.


ALL search engines use an algorithm, including Yahoo's. It's the only way to regularly index billions of web pages.

The overriding goal of google is to "index the worlds information". All search engines use algorithms to process data, i don't dispute that but there is a limit to the algorythm actually having value and purpose and there is a time when simply human intervention works BEST. Y! Answers, Y! Autos, Y! Jobs, Y! News - they all IMPLEMENT technology but they only make sense because of the human interaction - not the automated "search and indexing" of content.


There aren't enough humans in the world to keep a manual index up to date.

I never stated that. I'm just reiterating that no matter what you do technology only serves one purpose - to give information TO HUMANS and sometimes its better to remember the goal of a corporation shouldn't be to solve that with technical merits alone but MAKE IT EASY FOR HUMANS TO UNDERSTAND. Google score kudos big time with search because it is quick & easy. THey do it left and right but there are simply things that can't be done automated and that is where others shine.

Believe me, i think google is getting it - but not quite "getting it". They understand google video was limited because it didn't have the human "touch" - boring, bland and useless to many. GooTube was purely "social" and look how much that brought it. They see on some levels that People interacting with People within a "technology" framework works best but it isn't the technology that MAKES IT - its the people.

i don't need to go anyfurther, we're just stepping on each others toes right now. A techy who never becomes a user or never crosses the line into making decisions for others never really understands the utility of software - only the functionality. I don't know a SINGLE small business owner that has time to tag, search/index, filter, sort "thousands" of emails a day on gmail like some people claim the utility of it is. Most are simply creating folders (Which is a replication of real life document management) and sorting mail that way.

There are advanced & power users that will wow you on a daily basis but most people just want mail, news, chat, games, videos, IM, buy a car, shop online, join some groups, interact with PEOPLE. Something Yahoo is amazingly good at and should be able to speak of and point out as faults of its competition.

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