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Yahoo Search Engine and Directory Forum

This 105 message thread spans 4 pages: < < 105 ( 1 [2] 3 4 > >     
Yahoo Updated
Garya

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 9:28 am on Aug 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

looks like yahoo is looking more like google with this update. Older sites, outdated. Worst results yet.
all three SE have bad results.
ask.com only one with good results.

 

randle

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 2:15 pm on Aug 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Itís more of the same, change for the sake of change. Some of it looks better, but they just canít get the ordering right, particularly on an authoritative level. Overall itís just a bizarre looking set of results. They are not making any progress in closing the gap, if anything its widening. I know building and running a search engine is no easy matter but they have got to get better at this. Over the years we have not experienced any sort of systematic, incremental improvement in their results; theres no conceptual plan regarding their vision of signals of quality and how to rank sites based on those indicators.

Search needs these people to step it up and get some parity going here. Itís time to let someone else try and pull the sword from the rock.

angiolo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 3:57 pm on Aug 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

I am happy with this update.
Results are fine.
I think that there will be a good competition in the search engine world: now the three big give good results!

iThink

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 6:58 pm on Aug 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

I don't know why folks at Yahoo are still trying. They should start displaying results from Google again. At least there will be less clutter from blog and forum spam and they will save both effort and money.

91 out of the first 100 results for a particular keyword, that I watch on regular basis, are all junk blogs, subdomain redirects and junk forum pages. All old records set during previous Yahoo "updates" have been broken. How can the folks working for Yahoo even call it an update?

Garya

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 9:20 pm on Aug 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Comparing the results to canada results, they are filtering and giving more weight for larger and older sites.
My older large sites are doing very well in this update, the only problem with this, is I was not using them and was concentrating on my newer sites. They are more up to date and relevant.
I had one site I forgot about and it popped onto the first page it was not updated in 5 years.

Iguana

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 8:19 pm on Aug 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have previously praised Yahoo results as much better that the Amazon/Epinions Search Engine (also known as Google) in my area of music. But I can spot that the current Yahoo results are not their best.

I know it's insane to quote just one example but I'm going to anyway. My review page of a band is the #1 page for that band's name while the official site is #2. My on-page optimisation is probably much better than the band's and it is currently in my sidebar (so it has 400 internal links referencing the band's name). But there will be at most 4 external links to my review page (form the band and from CDBaby) while the band site will have many external links pointing to it. It suggests that a few dials need to be adjusted.

crobb305

WebmasterWorld Senior Member crobb305 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 1:32 am on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Bless their hearts...

Buckley

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 2:50 am on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think i jumped the gun :(

I posted this earlier:

[ Brilliant for me! I was 6th for my most important keyword a year ago...slowly dropped to 48th....now i'm 8th. Which is where i am in Google. 4 year old solid site that deserves to be there...they got it right, for me at least ]

Have now returned to 49th?

My site isn't new, it's solid. Are results still jumping around?

Why would my site so drastically change back and forth rankings?

Ideas? Many thanks in advance!

Garya

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 8:55 am on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Looks like some really wierd results just popped up. I see lots of sites that have the same domain name as the keyword move up to the first page tonight. Just when you thought it could not get any worse, yahoo comes throught again and blows it.

netjab

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 11:14 am on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Its been good for my site.

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 11:40 am on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Getting worse and worse....

Garya

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 5:40 pm on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yeah pretty bad stuff, i did a search for real estate in my area .
Only 2 realtors came up both were the same company, A bunch of strange sites came up just because the keyword was in the domain name, also some russian site moved up to the 1 page. Time to get some new people at yahoo. Yahoo is now a non- search engine.
by the way, The canada results are the best puts them above google and msn.
[ca.search.yahoo.com...]
Why do they do this?
Could it be they want everyone to pay for payperclicks to get $$$$$$?
Don't see any other reason to mess up the results so bad.

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 6:37 pm on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

YEah...it does not make sense.

You would think that the Yahoo! USA would be the best. Seems like they are tweaking it bad purposely. Let's see what happens in the next day or so.

Garya

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 6:46 pm on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

MSN has just move up on my list for relevancy.
#1 ASK
#2 MSN
#3 Google
#4 Yahoo far behind after last update sunday.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 8:20 pm on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Sometimes good, sometimes not
On many terms Yahoo does a decent job, even a great job. But on other terms that the other search engines can handle, Yahoo is falling down. Not just so-so results, but falling down.

Search queries that make you reach for a crash helmet
Did a search on a common two word seo term and they have the United Nations, two links to Java.Sun downloads page, a Virtual Library page about Sustainable Development, a site about Open Source Software, and a link to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

Two of the positions are WebmasterWorld, and the other two belong to a pair of keyword in domain sites (one of which is an Egyptian IT company that has nothing to do with the query, and the other is a business software company that also is irrelevant to the query).

So that's 8 misses out of 10, with only the two WebmasterWorld results being relevant.

Inconsistent Performance
Is there some kind of authority knob cranked to 11 here? Even MSN gets it right. This shouldn't be happening. It's the inconsistency of the results that bothers me the most.

MLHmptn

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 9:57 pm on Aug 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

YSM! :> PPC goes through the roof! :>~ Might be a wise time to start using YSM as the results are absolutely horrid! Good example martinibuster, but as you have noted, that is only the term SEO :>~ It's just too bad we can't use real examples here as I have quite a few that are absolutely horrid. I'm talking the first relevant result is #27.

Also with absolutely no correspondence from the Yahoo search team it shows how much they care as well. Their search blog asks for a few examples and then their team does not even elaborate as to why their results do not produce.

As far as I'm concerned Yahoo is now behind WiseNut.

ratzmilk

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 12:44 am on Aug 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I use a neutral test for search engine quality. One I use a lot is "What is the fastest land animal in the world?".

Currently, when I do that search in Google, the top ten results are all sites or pages that have information on cheetahs.

The results in Yahoo however are apalling. The top nine spots are forum posts with the number 1 spot being Yahoo Answers.

Only one page actually had any information about cheetahs, compared to Google, where 9 pages had information on cheetahs. None of the Yahoo results made the connection to Acinonyx Jubatus, all the others did.

In Yahoo Australia, none of the pages had information on cheetahs, they were all forum posts. The tenth spot was a 'Treasure Hunt' form being used by a school that had, word for word, the search question. Not a single page in the top 10 was a page or site about cheetahs.

Two years ago, the same test on both search engines was the reverse. Yahoo used to have excellent results, the Google results would mostly be affiliate sites with links to purchase books on cheetahs.

My test currently produced a score of 1/10 for yahoo.com. For the first time in 10 years of using this test, a zero score, 0/10 for yahoo.com.au. Google gets 9/10. Only one scraper site made it into the top ten. Ask.com scores 5/10. A biography of Abraham Lincoln ended up in the top 10 with them. They must be using an interesting algorithm. MSN.com scores a perfect 10/10. Every result was a site or page about cheetahs.

Doing a search for Blue Widgets and having your site at number 1 doesn't make these current Yahoo results good.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 6:33 am on Aug 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm talking the first relevant result is #27.

The results in Yahoo however are apalling.

And what do you suspect is causing this aberration?
There is a logical reason for it to fail. For instance, in my seo related term (and it's not SEO) the reason I suspect it's failing is obviously because there are links causing those sites to rank for the term, although only maybe one word of the two word phrase actually appears on the government type sites.

So please, it's nice for people to give feedback on crappy results, but it's really important for the community to reflect on WHY those results may be bad, to take a guess at WHAT FACTORS are causing those results to warp into bad results.

To my way of thinking, an analogy to gravity can be made. If a celestial body is producing enough gravitational pull, it can make another body change it's orbit. Similarly, algorithmic peculiarities can cause bad results to arise. It's like the gravity of whitelisting, link analysis, etc. is causing some sites to rank higher. So you have to set about to figure out what factors account for those bad result sets.

MSNDude said something similar in the MSN update thread regarding their algo. That if they tweak one aspect to get a serp right, it may cause other serps to go haywire. So what aspect is causing your example serps to go wrong?

Less anchors please!
So, it seems as if those sites have so much juice that a bunch of anchors is enough to make them rank for completely irrelevant terms. What this means to me is that Yahoo may not be accurately analyzing the topic of the site and page, not enough to know that the anchor data is not appropriate to the site and should be discarded or devalued: i.e. they aren't deprecating irrelevant links. In other words, not enough on page analysis, too much anchor weighting and not enough anchor analysis.

This is just my guess. What is yours?

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 11:32 am on Aug 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Spot on!

What I also see is four or five page sites with only one or two inbound links ranking higher than our site. We are buried in the 50s+.

Also see parked domains ranking well.

asianet

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 1:30 pm on Aug 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

My site was ranking no.1 last week for all it's main keywords and it has been there or thereabouts for a year now, but today it's nowhere to be seen. A four year old site with no blackhat SEO or other tricks, but I did introduce Google Adwords to every page about three weeks ago... Anyone else with lots of Adwords see their site disappear?

Steelbank

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 2:18 pm on Aug 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think we can all agree that the worst result currently are provided by Google. I cannot find anything in a search on google so I would turn to Yahoo.

I can now sadly say that Yahoo's results are now worse than google's. If you want to find anything now, you need to go to msn.com or ask.com

what's going on here?

Steelbank

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 2:18 pm on Aug 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

on another note - all our sites with adsense dropped dramatically....

MLHmptn

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 10:37 pm on Aug 29, 2006 (gmt 0)


And what do you suspect is causing this aberration?
There is a logical reason for it to fail. For instance, in my seo related term (and it's not SEO) the reason I suspect it's failing is obviously because there are links causing those sites to rank for the term, although only maybe one word of the two word phrase actually appears on the government type sites.

So please, it's nice for people to give feedback on crappy results, but it's really important for the community to reflect on WHY those results may be bad, to take a guess at WHAT FACTORS are causing those results to warp into bad results.

To my way of thinking, an analogy to gravity can be made. If a celestial body is producing enough gravitational pull, it can make another body change it's orbit. Similarly, algorithmic peculiarities can cause bad results to arise. It's like the gravity of whitelisting, link analysis, etc. is causing some sites to rank higher. So you have to set about to figure out what factors account for those bad result sets.

MSNDude said something similar in the MSN update thread regarding their algo. That if they tweak one aspect to get a serp right, it may cause other serps to go haywire. So what aspect is causing your example serps to go wrong?

Less anchors please!
So, it seems as if those sites have so much juice that a bunch of anchors is enough to make them rank for completely irrelevant terms. What this means to me is that Yahoo may not be accurately analyzing the topic of the site and page, not enough to know that the anchor data is not appropriate to the site and should be discarded or devalued: i.e. they aren't deprecating irrelevant links. In other words, not enough on page analysis, too much anchor weighting and not enough anchor analysis.

This is just my guess. What is yours?

Honesly martinibuster I think that inbound anchor text is hurting site rankings unless of course you have ungodly amounts of inbound links from on-topic relevant sites and I'm talking 1000's of inbounds not just hundreds. It amazes me that some of the sites in the top 10 have minimal to non-existent inbound links and are dominating the SERP's. I have one particular site that is on overtures keyword tracker tool as a keyword phrase related to the two phrase keyword and it's buried in the 150's+.

Keyword Density seems to me to be affecting the SERP's as well. In the sector I watch all top 10 sites have a keyword density between .50% and 1.2% and the sites that were dominating the top 10 for over 3+ years that had KD in the 3-5% range are nowhere to be found now. It's like Yahoo is penalizing sites for higher keyword densities and inbound link anchor text. Another thing that seems to be hurting sites is keyword in url strings that use this method for better rankings for Google's ALLINURL. If your exploiting keywords in the url string Yahoo seems to be penalizing it after so many URL thresholds(if that makes sense).

Another thing I notice is that when you do a search and the results are returned it seems that your keyword phrase is not plastered all over the SERP's. It's only annotated like once in each SERP. Repeating your keyword phrase in the body and increasing your KD kills as I see it.

Honestly though I cannot figure out this algorithm and I don't think I even care to as these results are going to push searchers out to other engines if they can't find what they are looking for.

Of course, YSM advertisers are loving it. Funny thing I decided to try a little advertising again with YSM and my position at #6-#7 is returning the traffic I was getting at #1 in the natural SERP's before this silly update. That tells me purely that searchers in my niche cannot find what they are looking for!

Earlier I mentioned that Yahoo just doesn't seem to care what we think but I haven't been following Yahoo much and didn't realize that Site Explorer is Yahoo's new way of communicating with webmasters. Anybody have any experience with this and is Yahoo actually communicating or are they just trying to mimic Google while not providing the real communication they say the program is for?

I would be interested in hearing how the site explorer and webmaster/yahoo search team communication is working.


Spot on!
What I also see is four or five page sites with only one or two inbound links ranking higher than our site. We are buried in the 50s+.

Also see parked domains ranking well.

Now that would be a new SEO technique...Parked domains for Yahoo! Click here for the site that Yahoo doesn't want you to see! :>~

Oh well, best of luck with Yahoo to all.

[edited by: MLHmptn at 10:37 pm (utc) on Aug. 29, 2006]

Buckley

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 1:55 pm on Aug 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

My site has been up and down like a brides nighty since the update. Currently there up (just how ya want them to be in both cases ;)) but i am worried they'll be back down....just hope yahoo has a little lovin left in her :)

adamovic

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 6:44 pm on Aug 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

It seems to me that Yahoo use TrustRank algorithm with sites in DMOZ as a seed. It seems predictable since I saw an article about fighting link spam which is signed by ricardo baeza-yates from Yahoo research.

adamovic

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 10:56 pm on Aug 30, 2006 (gmt 0)


that inbound anchor text is hurting site rankings unless of course you have ungodly amounts of inbound links from on-topic relevant sites and I'm talking 1000's of inbounds not just hundreds.

It seems that some of those 1000 links propagated some SpamRank, BadRank or whatever to destination site. People complaint that Yahoo is strange but to me all has sense after reading of dozens articles about fighting link spam.

Garya

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 3:49 am on Aug 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

Not sure we can learn anything fron yahoo results, as they are so bad.
I type in real estate for my area,
#1. government agency
#2. was a re-direct to an international site
#3. Was an outdated website with 1 incoming link
#4. a russian website nothing to do with real estate
#5 same gov. agency
#6 Pc supply company.
As you can see its a joke to even try.
I asuume there pay per click sales are going up since no one can find anything in the organic
resulsts.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 3:53 am on Aug 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

Every serp, whether good or bad, describes something about the underlying rules, the algorithm, that created those serps. In fact, it is the oddball serps that reveal the most, imo, about the algo. One is throwing away an opportunity to learn more about the underlying algo by simply dismissing the serps without trying to discern what is at work.

Garya, there is a logical reason for those serps. It's a machine creating those serps, and it is done via rules.

What rules do you suppose are operating to create those serps?

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 11:06 am on Aug 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think MLHmptn hits the nail on the head....

One can't adjust their site's makeup to this formula....

financialhost

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 11:10 am on Aug 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

Is this update still ongoing? Anyone noticing listing going up & down still?

I only just noticed that listings for my site/s have dropped but perhaps this is not finished yet.

Hows it for everyone else?

Garya

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 9:28 pm on Aug 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

Seeing results getting worst today. Don't remember results being this bad ever.
Having the same domain name as the search helps, I see alot of redirects to other sites on the top of results.

RunnerD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3059975 posted 6:16 pm on Sep 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

These results are horrible. Worst update ever. We dropped from number 4 to 54. All results are very poor for my search terms.

[edited by: RunnerD at 6:17 pm (utc) on Sep. 1, 2006]

This 105 message thread spans 4 pages: < < 105 ( 1 [2] 3 4 > >
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