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. continue. Coming out of Beta. When?
trungngo




msg:3144615
 5:46 am on Nov 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

... Continue . Coming out of Beta [webmasterworld.com]

Yes. I used to think that yahoo was really good when they bought Overture and Inktomi away from competitors. If you remember at that time, Google was good at search but a starter in the ppc market. MSN was not really anything. (no search engine, no ppc products).

With the combination of The Most Visited Site On The Web, The Best Pay Per Click Search Engine and The Pioneer In Search, It is supposed to have The Best Of Everything which make Yahoo #1. How can Yahoo lost that chance and let their competitors played it on their own games.

3 years ago Y is something, 3 years later I can't even compare it to its not-something's competors. For a big fan of Yahoo, this is something I just can't understand.

Yahoo! Beta is like the egg suppose to ... but never get to hatch.

YAHOO! BETTER WAIT UP!

 

garyr_h




msg:3145281
 6:47 pm on Nov 3, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yahoo is smart to not release their product to the public just yet. Y Publisher Beta has plenty of bugs within the system and they are still trying to figure out who to kick and who not to.

As well, the amount of advertisers outside the United States is somewhat low. I would imagine that Yahoo has to do something first to grab the attention of non-US advertisers.

With just publishers from the US involved in the publisher program, there has been issues of not enough ad-inventory. Just think what it would be like if no new advertisers joined and YPN went international. I don't know about you, but I don't want low-low PPC ads showing up on my site (if any at all) because the advertisers money ran out within a few hours after the month started.

As well, many US advertisers don't want outside business. When you look at some of the ads, they are specific to a general region or only deliver to within the US. First, YPN needs to start using a Geo-targetting system and fine tune it (I believe they have begun to somewhat test this but only within the SERPs, not for advertiser-to-publisher).

As you can see, many problems persist before the move to international takes place. Hopefully it takes soon, but many things have to happen from now until then. That is, unless it hasn't already begun behind closed doors.

ann




msg:3146140
 9:58 pm on Nov 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

Seems like a catch 22. To grab the non us advertisers they need non us publishers...Catch 22

Ann

gamiziuk




msg:3146771
 8:47 pm on Nov 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

They could go slowly, adding countries one at a time. I even suggested that to them back in September. Add countries such as Canada, Great Britain, Australia, etc. for advertisers and publishers.

A gradual increase of countries might go easier for them.

[webmasterworld.com...]

trungngo




msg:3146906
 1:36 am on Nov 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

I am personally agree with some folks here that yahoo need to have a good products that can pennetrated by geographic to help it expand globally. Without that it will not work well for their international publishers and that will be a big cost for yahoo. (If you read the news, I believe that google get a much as 40 percent from their global partners.)

If yahoo does not want to wasted all the money there which could added more that 500 millions for yahoo each quarter, they should move as quick as possible. Can you imagine how much money they wasted all those years. If they have it 2 years ago, google is not going to be like it today. (90% up when yahoo's too good to be down). With that kinds of money, they could hire all the best people in the world to help them out or bought out many companies that are dare to on its way.

Yahoo has not made any progress since its aquisitions of Over & Ink. At that time Yahoo is at its peak and seem no competitors would catch it but only to find that it strip over itself. It is our patient to wait for them over 3 years already. If they not come out now then how many years more would they have us waited for. I'll rather like to have the answer yes or no, not just some speculative statements like next year then next next year.

It is understandable that yahoo need to be carefull when it roll out their products because everything with yahoo suppose to be good. But with all those years and the best people that they have how hard is for them to took over 3 years and still nothing.

Remember that if even if they get the great one come out, it will not for long until google, msn, ask come out something better. (Google has upgraded its products all the time and yahoo will never get one massive scale to beat everyone.)

If we looking at their competitors, from the last 3 years google had made a big leap forward from no ppc search, no distributed partners, no mail to social network, blog, shopping network, check out, video and .... tons more that I can't even listed here.

MSN also go from nothing to something which now comparable to yahoo. They have search engine, msn space, live search, adscenter.

From what I see Yahoo have much to worry especially when their products are too stacked behind. Yahoo'is moving at a incrediable slow while their competiors keep pacing. In addition, they keep losing partners like aol, and other and have to compete again super fast social network and video sites like myspace and youtube.

It is not good to say but yahoo will but itself in danger.

johnsonsmith1




msg:3146923
 2:18 am on Nov 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

It will never come out of beta

In twenty years from now yahoo publisher will stil be beta

garyr_h




msg:3147610
 5:39 pm on Nov 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

gamiziuk,

I agree with you. That is perhaps one of the best things Yahoo could do with the situation they are in. Start by offering to Canada, then move to the UK and other English speaking countries, then move slowly across Europe, then Asia, South America, etc. etc. until all the countries they wish to be in it are.

This would help slowly build the publisher base and advertiser base while keeping the confidence in both sides that they are improving and beginning to include others in the program. YPN doesn't have to go public all at once, they can do it slowly.

trungngo,

I agree with you a lot, however, I don't think they are as in dire need as you seem to have specified. Yahoo is slowly losing shares, however, with an improvement of their SERPs and the eventual increase of advertisers/publishers (at least, if the program gets pushed out the right way, not too fast, not too slow and continue to improve both), they could really hit a homerun and take a chunk out of what Google has in those areas. Yahoo is still the #1 site, no doubt about it. They just need to put their efforts more into consolidating what they have and making the most out of what they could have.

For instance, why three totally different bookmarking systems? Consolidate them! Make them work together. With del.ico.us being a simple, easy to use service, leave it be. However, add a feature to it to allow more complexity, which would be the Yahoo side of things. The Yahoo Bookmarks/360 could be features, features features, with del.ico.us doing what it always has. Or perhaps, go one better and make it all del.ico.us, just put in user preferences so if they don't want all the complexity, they don't have to have it.

The same could be said about their finance sector, image programs, etc. They are just too big and need better communications.

I've read before, not sure where but I'm think it was Jen's blog (sorry if it's not), that Yahoo's sectors do not communicate at all. Why?

trungngo




msg:3154492
 7:54 pm on Nov 12, 2006 (gmt 0)

gamiziuk,

I'm absolutely agree with you that yahoo need to add more countries to help it get more international share. If they don't expand then they ultimately give up the big market to its competitors without a single fight. It is definitely not a good way while google, msn, ask ... snacking up advertisers and publishers just because yahoo decide to stay out of the game. If it continue that way, yahoo will lose more share and their competitors will eventually grow bigger and it could be too late for yahoo.

From what I see now, there is no time for slowly roll out and testing any more. Yes. There was a time when it was nessisary to do that and yahoo has plenty of time to fine tune it products but that time has gone. (3 years ago yahoo can afford to do that.) Right now is urgent and yahoo should understand that.

garyr_h, you definitely right that yahoo services need better integration. They are too fragmented and there are no interconnection. It need to improve its products in order to compete with social network sites since these sites are better in integration and communication. Yahoo need to reborn itself to help it capture the market share away from social sites.

According to the recent report, the online advertising market is growing at the rate of over 30 percent. Google, ... and other competitors are growing. If yahoo is not growing, there are some problems. If it is shrinking, it is serious.

Yahoo needs to face it before it can moving forward. If they do that, they still have chance.

TrungNgo

TrungNgo

nippi




msg:3154884
 7:37 am on Nov 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

Personally, their delay to me is jsut plain stupid.

What better way to take advantage of googles superior search results, by placing yahoo adds on the resulting sites.

Surely, a multi billion dollar company can sort geo targeting, and do a massive world wide launch and marketing campaign of its product to get sufficient advertisers and publishers?

I think yahoo, is going to well and truly miss the boat and whoever is running YPN is kidding themselves that by delaying till its perfect, the result is going to be better than simply launching world wide now.

GAWD! I've got a fmaily of portals my company runs, with banner adds, and my programming team built a geo targeting system into it in 3 weeks.

its plain incompetent to take so long, its just not that technically difficult.

wyweb




msg:3155434
 8:01 pm on Nov 13, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've got a fmaily of portals my company runs, with banner adds, and my programming team built a geo targeting system into it in 3 weeks.

I built geo targeting into my network of 16 websites in 2 days...2 very long days. Each website had different requirements, different sizes and different alternate ads to be shown were the targeted ads not available. I did this when YPN started making an issue of non-US clicks. I mean it was in the terms from the start but they didn't really start enforcing it for a while. This is all beta. This is all STILL beta.

I have screenshots of emails from yahoo employees who said geo-targetting and click filtering was done on their end. I have 2 of them. Yet 3 weeks later they booted a number of YPN publishers for having too many international clicks.

My audience is about 70% American. I was accepted into the YPN beta program about 2 months after it began. Since then I have seen wild fluctuations in EPC... ranging from simply outstanding at first to next to nothing as time went on. Their targeting has remained BS but EPC has fallen from the very start. I made numerous posts about this when this was happening. It was an ongoing price share adjustment on yahoo's part... they wooed us in with some big bucks and then took those bucks away, hoping we'd stay on anyway... Some have. Most, like myself, have gone back to adsense...

AbsintheSyringe




msg:3159931
 3:38 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Oh well, when it first came out there were dozens of threads just like this one, and now after a long time I completely forgot about them, and remembered and here I am ... and still they are in beta.

I hope YahooSarah, would answer and say at least something. I dont know about you, but I'm really not interested any more, Yahoo is trying to keep up the pace in IT overall, but they are just too static.

trungngo




msg:3160384
 11:19 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm definitely agree with you that I am too very excited about yahoo ypn thing when it was first announce 2 or 3 years ago. But like you I am not really care anymore.
It is like you wait and wait, ... until ... you doesn't want to wait anymore. All my high expectation was turned down and yahoo is too good to upset thousands of webmasters around. With this way of running the largest internet corporation, yahoo will eventually collapse and get bought out by Google or MS.

Erku




msg:3160451
 12:54 am on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

While I agree very much with trungngo, I say this: Is it today that YPN is down and will run major changes? Let's see what new things are coming up?

garyr_h




msg:3160481
 2:10 am on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

It was down yesterday and the major changes already took place... The only visible change was the addition of the compliance manager, which basically just tells you if any of your pages are in violation of YPN rules.

ken_b




msg:3160486
 2:25 am on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

...compliance manager. ..

Where are you seeing this feature?

[added] OK, I found where it's supposed to be, but it's not showing for me.

garyr_h




msg:3160599
 5:41 am on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

It only shows if you have a problem.

ken_b




msg:3160602
 5:42 am on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Ahha! Then I won't mind not seeing it... :)

mfishy




msg:3160802
 12:17 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yahoo! has not been exactly crushing on Wall Street and they just leave millions upon millions on the table? Nice Move! Well, at least they are doing well with Yahoo answers :(

rubenski




msg:3162350
 12:21 pm on Nov 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

How long has it been since I signed up. A year? Maybe more. Yahoo doesn't stand a chance against Google. Expecially since their products are exactly the same and everyone knows and uses Google Adwords already. Too bad for Yahoo, and all the publishers that were hoping for the safety of a second program.

trungngo




msg:3163051
 10:23 pm on Nov 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

Yeap. You are right. It is not to under-estimate yahoo but if yahoo vs google. Yahoo doesn't get any chance!

The odd thing is I used to think it was the other way around and I believe that alot of people here feel that way too.

If you flash back 5 years ago then you have a good reason to believe that.
Yahoo is #1 (and by far #1)
* Yahoo dropped Inktomi => Stock dropped => Ink died
* Popular Altavista went portal => but got crush
* #2 Excite portal => Went flat
* Lycos Tera Network => Went down hill
* MyWay (Yahoo brother) => Became phenemonal success

And the games continued which the biggest competitors failed and falled to the hand of Yahoo.

* FAST TRANSFER exited the web search business
* Altavista, AllTheWeb got bought out by Overture and eventually, Overture was fallen to Yahoo
* Inktomi, the pioneer in web search for so long, the dominant player also surrended to Yahoo

With these acquistions, Yahoo left Microsoft MSN goes no where. (No search engine, no ppc and still binded by the contracts with Overture for years which make Yahoo total control over MSN Network.)

The only key option at that time was Microsoft to acquired Google (which good at search but still small and affordable) and acquired FindWhat and trouble Aol to comparable to Yahoo.

If Google vs Yahoo at that time, then it was like Google vs YouTube today. A cake for Yahoo. Yahoo just simply bought Google out just like that. (Google was estmated to worth about 2-5 billions ranges. At that time, I believed Yahoo marketed cap was around 45 billions)

But look at how fast things have changed. Today Yahoo market cap: 36 billions while Google market cap: 151 billions which is almost 5 times Yahoo.

MS almost has everything Yahoo has.

For Yahoo, During the last 5 years it goes around and went back to the point it started. Absolutely no significant changes. The only changes I saw were it keep loosing Market Share, Partners, Users, Webmasters, Stock and now Google Network is about to over take Yahoo Network at the biggest traffic network on the web.

For me, I don't undertand, I don't get it, It is un-believable how Yahoo from the dominant position has fallen too far behind its competitors.

Can anyone have a good reason ... why?

garyr_h




msg:3163379
 4:52 am on Nov 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

Lack of focus, lack of direction. For the past few years it has seemed that Yahoo doesn't know what it is. Is it a search engine? A directory? A portal with search ability? Then came the acquisitions that never fully worked its way into the portal... flickr, del.ico.us, overture, the list can really go on forever.

Then, they kept building more and more. Yahoo 360, Yahoo Bookmarks, Yahoo mail upgrades, better sports pages, Yahoo local...

Everyone uses Yahoo, most use it daily. The problem isn't trying to get people to visit a Yahoo website, it's to get them to stay there and use it for more than just one thing. How many people use Flickr and don't even realize it's part of the Yahoo portal? How many use del.ico.us and don't know? How many people use their mail system but don't even bother using the search feature?

All of this comes back to the YPN Beta. What is it? Is it just an Adsense clone? Is it something only select few will get into? Or will it be something more? Something that Yahoo hasn't done for a while... something that when it does finally come out of Beta, it will amaze everyone, even those who have been waiting more than a year for it.

In my opinion, which of course doesn't mean much, Yahoo should sit down with ALL their presidents, vice presidents, and everyone else who work in separate departments and find a drive. Something simple that everyone can agree upon and just go for it.

I'm not talking about 'being the best portal' or any of that nonsense. Because, that really is what it is - nonsense. Don't try to be the 'best portal'. Be the best there ever was, the best there ever will be, and crush the competition so badly that when someone else tries to come out with the same product they are laughed at. Because really, that is what they are up against in many of their sectors and it wouldn't be hard to find evidence of even on this very forum.

When Yahoo announced they were creating their own web search, what happened? They were laughed at. They were told they couldn't compete against Google. What happened when Yahoo started YPN? They were told they couldn't compete against Google.

However, look at the flip side. What happened when Google announced they were entering the web-mail market? They were laughed at, they couldn't compete against Yahoo. What happened when Google said they were entering the personal homepage? Same thing. - That's what Yahoo needs to build on. Don't try to copy or just be the best. They have to actually BE the best and try their damnedest to create new features every few months and implement them right away bug-free - because in reality, that's what we all want, and should expect from the company who says they are the best.

ember




msg:3169018
 4:10 am on Nov 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

We love YPN and earn five times more revenue with it than Adwords. I doubt it will continue, but it's a great ride for now.

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