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Remove the G+ button
Andem




msg:4553004
 3:55 am on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld is probably the best site overall when it comes to discussing many topics we all deal with on a daily basis. Why, oh why does WW sport the Google+ button at the end of every thread?

Many here are aware of the power and reach of Google, the sometimes unethical practices that the company has been involved in and the completely mythical nature of Google. Heck, moderators of this very site have hinted at the potential evils and disadvantages of having anything to do with Google.

Why on earth does the Google+ button exist on almost every single page here? It provides virtually no benefit to WebmasterWorld and one can only debate how much data Google uses to build a profile of somebody. (This is a question of how much, not IF).

This is more of a concern for webmasters than anybody else.

What benefit does the G+ button provide users here?

Until this question is answered, I will continue to remain skeptical about which threads I even dare to read. Having this useless button on threads is detrimental to the community here.

 

Leosghost




msg:4553011
 4:41 am on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

Agreed..do not like the presence of the G+ button on any WebmasterWorld pages at all..why allow Google to spy on members and be able to associate their posts, thoughts, comments, and their even their reading, with their IPs..and thus their search histories, surfing habits websites,purchases on the web, adsense accounts or other items..it logs each of us individually each time we load it into our browsers..it is a spy in the midst of this community..

topr8




msg:4553031
 9:33 am on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

although WebmasterWorld works fine with js turned off ... so you have the option

... and OP if you that paranoid, why are you using Google Analytics?
[webmasterworld.com...]

Skorpios




msg:4553053
 12:48 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

Whether it be Google or any other organisation when it comes to collecting data they are all the same, being concerned about what they have about you as an individual is a bit late if nothing else, Microsoft were collecting data years before Google were about and people were concerned then. It is a concern but unfortunately the only way to ensure that nobody can collect data regarding you is not to be online.

Data was collected on individuals before computers were about, even if you do not have a pc and do not go online companies still collect data about you. Your credit card company watch your spending pattern and send you advertising about any products that match up. Your local supermarket watch what you buy and send you advertising again to try to get into your wallet. Data is the most valuable commodity but the only way you can get away from supplying it to some organisation is to go and live in a cave somewhere and live on bugs, which may suit some but if you want to live in todays technology based environment then you will have to put up with it.

lucy24




msg:4553066
 1:37 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

Your credit card company watch your spending pattern and send you advertising about any products that match up.

Bit tricky, there, since groceries are one of the few things most people still pay for with cash. Don't quite see the supermarket staff poring over checks, matching them up with receipts and noting down the imprinted address.

WebmasterWorld forums are indexed before the page even has time to refresh, and were highly visible in search results before g+ ever existed. Would our advertisers pay more if the number of tweets, likes or followers went up? How simple-minded of them.

Skorpios




msg:4553076
 2:43 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

I get advertising from a large supermarket chain on a regular basis based on the products I have purchased previously through the use of store cards etc. If you stand at the cash register in most supermarkets I would say the vast majority of people pay with some form of debit/credit card for their groceries, after all I do not see many people walking round with large wads of cash.

This will differ in communities and countries, whether in the UK or the USA people use plastic, that is the secondary reason why cards are so valuable, shows your spending habits for targeted advertising.

Leosghost




msg:4553082
 3:06 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

UK or the USA
!=world
I do not see
!=world
Your experience!=world
Your credit card company watch your spending pattern and send you advertising about any products that match up.
Where I am it would be illegal if they did so..

I was in business before MS and Google..and due to previous time spent in the services decades ago, I would venture that I know far more about what governments know about their and other countries citizens than you do..the fact that other entities have data and have gathered data.. does not mean that it is OK ( nor can you or someone else purport to speak for me ) for commercial entities to be aided in their data gathering / spying ..

The G+ button here serves no purpose ( note it is hardly ever used ) than to ID individual posters comments and their readers via their IPs to Google..

You may have already let your "personal data horses" bolt..many of us take much greater care with our stable doors..

And it has to be said that reprimands on issues affecting this community coming from someone whose join date is 72 hours ago..is a bit of anomaly..one could suspect your motives..

Skorpios




msg:4553111
 4:14 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

My point is your data is collected on a daily basis by all sorts of organisations, the original point about Google+ collecting data is kind of mute. As far as my experience of the world, I have lived in several countries around the world, including the USA and the spending patterns of people is the same world over, they need food, they buy food etc etc. As far as where I forgot to list every nation in the world but just named 2 parts of it well I do apologise if you were offended but just because it is a law in your state does not mean that organisations outside your state are not collecting and using data about you for something.

As far as whether you want Google or not if it wasn't Google it would be some other organisation.

As far as my experience !=world, im sorry I thought this was about expressing an informed opinion, no it does not cover every human being on the planet in every nation but as I stated, in my opinion.

Skorpios




msg:4553112
 4:17 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

Leosghost, I can assure you that no matter how careful and paranoid you are organisations and/or government hold some information about you that you would prefer that they do not have. The fact that I have woken up to this does not make me careless about what information gets into the hands of other people/organisations/government, just means I am aware.

Dare I say I had the audacity to have an opinion, in what is a human right, which you are arguing, you have by saying that you have a right to privacy with your information and that I should not speak for you, which at no point was I, seems to show you in the light that unless I agree with you you will not discuss but dictate. Unfortunately as far as I can see a difference of opinion is healthy but dictating to me how I should think is no more accepted in the USA as in the UK and that is right but that is going totally off topic.

However as you raised your objections to my opinion and your conspiracy theory about my motives which apart from having a right to express my opinion do not exist. The fact that I have only been in this community for 5 minutes does not mean that I cannot have a voice, or does it? If that is the case then do you equate that to the physical world as well?

The fact is that unless you live in a society that does not have technology someone somewhere holds some information about you, Google are definitely not the first and they will not be the last.

As to whether it is right, no it is not but I do not see things changing while individuals and organisations can abuse loopholes in the laws of worldwide societies/countries.

[edited by: Skorpios at 4:48 pm (utc) on Mar 10, 2013]

Leosghost




msg:4553118
 4:43 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

mute!=moot ( and the point is not "moot" anyway )

The collection of data by credit card companies and the usage of such by them directly to target you with advertising or to re-sell the data to others for them to do so is specifically prohibited throughout the EU and many other states..note the EU includes the UK..

As far as whether you want Google or not if it wasn't Google it would be some other organisation.


ah ..The "they are all doing it" ( as far as your limited knowledge goes ) everywhere..so one should bend over and take it..and actually help them..

You get to vote that on behalf of yourself..not for anyone else..

Paranoia doesn't enter into it..I have first hand knowledge over 4 and a half decades of the extent of government held data in all NATO and allied countries..having had security cleared access to some of it..

The fact that I have woken up to this does not make me careless about what information gets into the hands of other people/organisations/government..

Yet your own words contradict that ..you do not care..
As far as whether you want Google or not if it wasn't Google it would be some other organisation.

Skorpios




msg:4553124
 4:51 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

I sense hostility, you may be better off living in a country where dictatorship is the norm but when I start to be dictated to will be the day I die!

Sorry, I didn't realise that the spell check police had encroached in here

I do care about my data but I have common sense that says that I am responsible for the data I hold in my hands but cannot be responsible for the data my bank holds, my supermarket holds, the garage and every other place that I spend/visit.

Society only has laws such as the data protection act but then if everyone stuck to the law we would not have criminals.

[edited by: Skorpios at 4:54 pm (utc) on Mar 10, 2013]

Samizdata




msg:4553125
 4:54 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

I would like to see the original question addressed:

Why, oh why does WW sport the Google+ button at the end of every thread?

Can anyone offer me a good reason for having a Google+ button here?

It seems unlikely to have been popular demand.

if it wasn't Google it would be some other organisation

There used to be a FaceBook "Like" button here too, but that disappeared.

There must have been a reason for removing it (which I may have missed).

What makes one data miner more acceptable than another?

...

Leosghost




msg:4553126
 4:57 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

I live in France..and have lived in the USA, UK, IE, DE and many others..

That word "correction" was to aid your comprehension ( I do not think it was originally a typo on your part ) it is frustrating to discuss things with folks who do not use words which have very precise meanings based upon what they actually mean, as opposed to based upon what they think they mean..or may have thought they heard..or how they think they are spelled..and it is confusing for readers who may well be misled as a result..

My apologies if English is not your first language..only trying to help..:)

[edited by: Leosghost at 5:06 pm (utc) on Mar 10, 2013]

Skorpios




msg:4553127
 4:58 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

I am not saying that the G+ button is right however worrying about Google is in your own words

You may have already let your "personal data horses" bolt

We are all guilty of this, no matter what you know and what you think you know collecting data is power, humans/organisations/governments crave power this battle will be going for as long as human beings are on this planet

Leosghost




msg:4553128
 4:59 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

We are all guilty of this

I am not :)

Nor will I cease to fight this battle..( commercial organisations have no need other than for their profit ) to have this data..

And unlike governments, who may ( and many do ) abuse their data collection..commercial organisations cannot be voted out..nor do citizens have any oversight ( directly or indirectly ) over who such commercial entities sell or exchange such detailed data with..

brotherhood of LAN




msg:4553130
 5:15 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

Feel free to block requests for the +1 <script> using your favourite browser...... it should be relatively quick and painless.

Leosghost




msg:4553135
 5:20 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

But why should we have to ..and would newbie webmasters know how to ..and why is it there..given that is extremely rarely if ever used / clicked upon..it spys on the members and gives nothing to the community here in return..

As Samizdata says..why no answer? to why is it here ?

Sure looks like it was added just to spy on us for Google..it's highly intrusive presence has never been explained..

[edited by: Leosghost at 5:26 pm (utc) on Mar 10, 2013]

Samizdata




msg:4553136
 5:22 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

Feel free to block requests for the +1 <script> using your favourite browser

The question from the OP was why is the Google+ script there at all?

Anyone at WebmasterWorld have an answer?

...

Skorpios




msg:4553137
 5:23 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

I think at some point I have already said that I agree with you that it is not right but this battle will be going on long after we are no longer living and far beyond.

Data no matter in what form is money, that equates to greed however that is human nature. It is not right but it is the way it is.

As your original question asked why is the g+ button there, well apart from the obvious answer, the designer put it there there is no real reason for it.

The only benefit to webmasterworld is that the site/forum etc could possibly reach followers on Google which brings in a bigger audience.

Leosghost




msg:4553141
 5:30 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

WebmasterWorld never needed a G+ button to grow to what it has..it is a recent addition..

This place was huge, ( millions of page visits per day ) well ( and ultra well indexed and very very high in SERPS ) before G+ was thought of..and when you remove the new "android activations / forced G+ signups" from Larry's G+ figures..G+ is a near ghost town compared with facebook..so it sure isn't for exposure to greater numbers of webmasters..

[edited by: Leosghost at 5:33 pm (utc) on Mar 10, 2013]

Skorpios




msg:4553142
 5:32 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

But if there is a chance of more people talking about and advertising webmasterworld then surely it is a good thing and has to be taken.

If there is a chance of more members, more communication between those members then this is a positive move, as others have said, you can block it.

Samizdata




msg:4553144
 5:39 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

there is no real reason for it

With respect, you do not speak for WebmasterWorld (and apparently joined three days ago).

WebmasterWorld is entitled to run the site as they see fit, but the question has been asked in the Community Center Forum and surely deserves an answer from someone who knows.

Why do we have a Google+ button on every page?

...

Leosghost




msg:4553145
 5:40 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

facebook has far more reach..far more chance of getting newer members via it's button..facebook's button was removed..

Lest anyone who has not read many of my posts be thinking otherwise..I am not a fan of facebook ..and did not like it's button being here either..

I don't like any embedded spys in pages..they used to be grouped with malware by many IT security pros ..and still are by many of us here..but many do not mention the G+ button publicly here in threads..as they fear possible repercussions..some have told me "outside" they hate it's presence here..but will not mention that here..in case their nicks and IPs are blocked..

The perception of many ( and very many more who will not post about it for the reason I gave above ) is that the integrity of WebmasterWorld was and is "compromised" by the G+ button..

matrix_jan




msg:4553146
 5:48 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

<thinkingoutloud>
How come there is no facebook button then? Or is it that facebook is not a search engine? Then why is there a Tweet button? Probably to accompany the +1 button so that it won't be the only one down there...

Conclusion: Looks more like a promotion than a button that should ease the sharing process...
</thinkingoutloud>

Skorpios




msg:4553147
 5:49 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

The point I was trying to make is that this site would exist with or without G+, I also repeated what has been said by several others, you can block it. I was not speaking for anyone else but expressing my opinion. Baiscally G+ may enhance the number and diversity of members but until it is given a chance to prove one way or the other I dare say it is worth tryin

matrix_jan




msg:4553152
 5:55 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

@Leosghost

Was I thinking out too loud? :)

Anyway, I started writing my facebook thing before your post... But the point is the same, if those are for sharing then why are there just two of them? Why not to put an addthis button? Maybe some want to share on other social networks, or even email to a friend...

brotherhood of LAN




msg:4553154
 6:02 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

The question from the OP was why is the Google+ script there at all?


I think all of us can safely say that it's there so people can share links ;)

I would have had the script blocked months ago if privacy were a concern, otherwise I'd have to prefetch pages to see if there were G+ buttons on pages I haven't visited. As it turns out I don't churn out boatloads of spam so I think Google wouldn't be interested in me.

Andem




msg:4553159
 6:14 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

and OP if you that paranoid, why are you using Google Analytics


My rule of thumb is that if a user logs in, there are *no* third party buttons or analytics on the site. Since I am always logged in and many of my members across sites are logged in, Analytics and Adsense are not present.

I'm not paranoid either. Google has publicly stated that their usage and collection of data should approach "the creepy line and not cross it". Since that was quite a while ago, I think they HAVE crossed that line.

But my point still stands, and Leosghost has really expanded on my own opinion and question as to why G+ even exists here.

The question from the OP was why is the Google+ script there at all?

Anyone at WebmasterWorld have an answer?


That's exactly what my question was.

Do the supporters' forums have the +1 button?

I think all of us can safely say that it's there so people can share links ;)


I disagree that we can safely say anything. Google Plus is very much a ghost town, though maybe Leo's Ghost lives there (who knows ;)). If it was really to share links, why G+ and not Facebook? Perspective: I have 308 real friends on Facebook, compared to ONE on Google Plus.

Samizdata




msg:4553163
 6:27 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

I think all of us can safely say that it's there so people can share links ;)

Webmasters generally know how to share links already.

They also know that Google+ is one of the least effective ways of doing it.

Whereas the FaceBook button - with far greater reach - was removed.

I merely wish to understand the logic behind this ostensibly counter-productive difference.

I still find it baffling, despite your kind attempt to help.

...

brotherhood of LAN




msg:4553172
 6:39 pm on Mar 10, 2013 (gmt 0)

>Webmasters generally know how to share links already.

:)

It's worth remembering that WebmasterWorld is under new ownership and the new owner may/may not want social buttons on threads, it'll be something that'll be covered in due course I am sure.

In my own opinion, I'd like the site to be open to social sharing, but that's just me. I do understand why people would rather it not be there too.

This 49 message thread spans 2 pages: 49 ( [1] 2 > >
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