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Feedback Days and changes
jecasc




msg:4245031
 10:40 pm on Dec 21, 2010 (gmt 0)

What - the drawing hasn't taken place yet? You did not think we'd forget Brett. ;) I have been checking my Inbox every day since May for the announcement of me being the winner.

And what better time would there be than Christmas time to announce the winner? (I still need some last minute presents by the way.)

 

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:4245114
 8:56 am on Dec 22, 2010 (gmt 0)

Yes, I came across that thread a couple of days ago and I thought that WW was derelict in its duty of providing feedback on the feedback. ;)

Brett_Tabke




msg:4245221
 4:25 pm on Dec 22, 2010 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the reminder - I'd forgotten. hehe. Kick can. Continued apologies for the delay on this.

Feedback days was troubling. In 10 years at this domain, 2 more at searchengineworld, and 1 more on my ISP, I have never questioned the core value of the site and it's value to the community as it existed. It was crystal clear from the comments that changes had to be made in systemic structure, policy, and personnel. The crisis of faith, questioned if we had the tools and the will to pursue those baseline changes.

The delay in getting the changes made is not for lack of desire. I just didn't want to come out and say "thanks - later dudes - xyz won xyz - everything stays the same". If we did that, it would have meant everything was for nothing. The second part of the equation is the sticky one. We are a commercial venture. While some would love to see the site remain as it has for the last ten years, that is just not a viable economic model. Changes need to be made there and those take time.

We are in the classic paradox of the successful situation. If we change the core system, then we alienate the long term valid supporters. If we don't change, we alienate those that are relatively new here and used to something else or different. Can you think of another site that has remained relatively as unchanged as webmasterworld has for over 10 years? People count on that.

Changes already made [webmasterworld.com]. It is no secret we have changed the posting guidelines [webmasterworld.com]. We essentially suspended the edit policy for everything but the most egregious spams. I rarely go a day here without this coming up and up and up. Getting all the moderators & admins on the same page has been nearly impossible. I know it continues to cause issues for many senior members. I hear from them on this issue almost daily. We are working hard to get everyone to the same policy. This is the biggest issue that has been next to impossible to manage and implement. I have several emails from moderators right now complaining about this policy and wanting to edit people for their political views [webmasterworld.com].

Getting 60 people to moderate the same way, is not going to happen. What works in one forum such as the browsers forum, often won't work in a free flow forum like Foo. Getting everyone to understand that there will be differences, and not turn around and apply those differences to their own forum where it isn't appropriate - is impossible.

It would take a better writer than me to express the depth of change this represents and the emotional pain it has caused me, my family, and everyone on staff. We have lost senior members over the changes. I have employees po'd at me for making these changes. I have moderators that are upset at the changes. Other senior members are upset that we haven't made MORE changes. What I am pointing too, is that since feedback days, we stirred everyone up emotionally. That cuts both ways. It really has meant a ton more direct hands-on work in email, on the phone, via Twitter, via Facebook, via Linkedin, and video chat. I have spent more time dealing with stuff on WebmasterWorld the last six months, than the previous ten years. This has to change.

Part 2: Moving the server [webmasterworld.com] was a necessity. We had outgrown the old one and was taking far too much time to keep up. Getting that moved has taken a couple of weeks now. We also got a new email server and moved all mail. (I think we have most of those issues close to resolved, but watch lists are still not working). As we mentioned in that other thread on this, we have been planning some important, but internal upgrades to the software. There has been a growing database issue that we have to rewrite all the core routines. That is close to done, but requires lots of testing. Unfortunately, the guy that had done all that coding, has moved on from the company.

Lastly, there is the competitive aspect. You never want to telegraph a move in a way that can bite back.

We'll finish this mid next week. If you have any specific questions - feel free to hit me in stickymail or email (btabke at WebmasterWorld)

weeks




msg:4245335
 8:32 pm on Dec 22, 2010 (gmt 0)

It would take a better writer than me to express the depth of change this represents and the emotional pain it has caused me, my family, and everyone on staff. We have lost senior members over the changes. I have employees po'd at me for making these changes. I have moderators that are upset at the changes. Other senior members are upset that we haven't made MORE changes.
Yeah, when I saw what "Feedback Days" was about, I thought, "uh oh." You know what the least fun job at a daily newspaper is? Editor of the comics section. People go nuts if you consider dropping Mary Worth. And some people find Ziggy offensive.

I am not anti-ads, done carefully and appropriately. (But, just so you know where I am, I question government funds going to NPR...)

gpilling




msg:4248076
 3:18 pm on Jan 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

I didn't realize any changes had been made. I put a link in a post about the NY Times article about the eyeglass seller that harassed his customers and tried for negative reviews. The link was to searchenglineland and my post got deleted. The link was to an analysis of the websites backlink profile and why it was ranking, which turned out to be the NY Times itself. I guess I should go and read the revised TOS.

Brett_Tabke




msg:4248090
 5:04 pm on Jan 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

We have made alot of changes, but we are still not getting into specific moderator actions in public.

There were alot of dupes in that thread GP that never made it out of premod and alot of link drops. We still treat link drops without comments as spam regardless of who they go too.

alright, we are going to move on from this thread. We are not ready for an indepth discussion just yet of the issues brought up here other than what I commented above.

Congrats to the winners from feedback days (including - gpilling who won a starbucks gift card:-) and didn't make it into the original announcement because we were unable to get in touch with one of the original winners. Its in the announcements off the top menu bar.

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