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Where Are the Best Places to Find a Quality, Remote Full-Time SEO Job
jeremymgp




msg:3190489
 2:33 pm on Dec 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hello everyone,

Where are the best places to find a remote, fulltime SEO job? I've recently started winning major fulltime SEO provider jobs at freelance sites but the clients and sites are often so unrewarding I end up turning them down - so far in the past 30 days I've refused around $6000/month of work so I really would like to find a solution to this :).

I can get major results in Google.com for keywords with 100s of 1,000,000s of keywords and have the vision to make truly first-rate sites. That's the problem - I want to work for a company that has the same standards so I can build up some capital to fuel my own sites as well, but the quality is hard to find.

I've seen some people here saying they can land remote SEO jobs no problem with $5000+/month, I come from a freelance site background so just need to know - where can these great jobs be found?

Thanks for your help,

Best Regards,
Jeremy

 

pageoneresults




msg:3190505
 2:53 pm on Dec 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've seen some people here saying they can land remote SEO jobs no problem with $5000+/month, I come from a freelance site background so just need to know - where can these great jobs be found?

There are various places out there that list SEO Jobs that are available.

Those great jobs you are referring to come in time. After a few years in this industry and a rock solid performance record, the jobs will find you. In fact, so much so, you'll be turning them down too. ;)

paladin




msg:3190523
 3:29 pm on Dec 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

so much so, you'll be turning them down too

Amen to that. It took a while but I am finally at that positon myself. I get a few calls/emails per week and can now afford to be very picky about what I select.

dickbaker




msg:3190776
 11:26 pm on Dec 16, 2006 (gmt 0)

The numbers you folks are tossing around are pretty remarkable.

I'm doing SEO work for a hosting company on a freelance basis. Right now there's just one customer that I do work for on a monthly basis. I get paid $600 a month, and do ten to twenty hours of work on the customers site per month. The owner's plan is to establish a separate SEO company, and have me handle the clients. But that could take a long time.

I have some questions, and hope that one or more of you would be willing to answer.

How do you establish yourself as a SEO professional? The reason I ask is that I pretty much fell into SEO while working on a friend's site over five years ago. I did a lot of studying, and got that site first-page results for just about every term they wanted. I then built my own for-profit website, and I'm first-page for pretty much every term I want. (My best is #1 out of 47,000,000 results on Google). For the clients the hosting company is giving me, I'm getting first page results for the sites whose owners implement my suggestions. But I don't know if I'm a professional.

If I'm not a professional by your definitions, how do I become one?

How do you get to a position where people are seeking you out? Are you working as a freelance SEO specialist?

With the hosting company I'm working for now, I'd have to put in 100 hours or more a month to make $6000.

If any of you are willing to answer these questions, or offer up other advice, I'd much appreciate it.

jeremymgp




msg:3190859
 3:22 am on Dec 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your responses,

pageoneresults said:
There are various places out there that list SEO Jobs

Yes I can find them myself but to be sure I'm going to the right places, can you list some of the best/most popular ones? Thanks in advance.

paladin said:
Amen to that. It took a while but I am finally at that positon myself. I get a few calls/emails per week and can now afford to be very picky about what I select.

What we all want to know of course is how you got the reputation to get those few calls/emails per week. Any pointers much appreciated.

dickbaker said:
With the hosting company I'm working for now, I'd have to put in 100 hours or more a month to make $6000.

$6000 for 25+ hours a week isn't so bad, all you need perhaps is to get more of the same work you currently have. Most SEOs surely don't start out by saying "I'm going to become a professional SEO", the whole industry is too new and too variable, and while I can get results I'd not say I'm a professional as such yet, on the contrary I hope perhaps I never will be. The professionals are simply the ones who have the motivation to systematically promote sites and get work, both of which are necessary skills to get that "professional" status and build a reputation for doing reliable, first-rate work. Doing the work is half the battle, climbing the social ladder is the other half and I'm sure you can succeed in that also,

Best Regards,
Jeremy

dickbaker




msg:3190889
 5:39 am on Dec 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thank you for the reply, Jeremy.

There are months where I put in maybe ten or fifteen hours for this particular client, and get paid $600.

There's also months where I put in more than thirty hours. But that was when the client launched their new site. As you know, or at least as I assume, the majority of SEO time is consumed by the construction of a new site.

In my semi-former career (long story, so don't ask) I made at least $6000 a month. Sometimes much more.

I enjoy the challenges of SEO work, even though it's very tedious. Sometimes downright boring. But, when I see the tangible results, I feel a sense of reward.

My boss and I disagree on how much time I should be spending on this particular client. He thinks I should be spending thirty or more hours per month, whereas I don't think that $20 an hour is sufficient compensation. I can make that by being an assistant-to-the-assistant-manager at McDonalds.

I also think that, once the site is created per my suggestions, the amount of time required per month diminishes. Yes, there's always submissions to directories, requests for reciprocal links, tweaking new pages, writing press releases, and so on. But it seems to me--and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong--that there's a "grandfathering" effect with the SE's in which sites that are properly SEO'd gain ranking and maintain that ranking.

A time may come when my boss and I lock horns on just how much I should be paid monthly or hourly for what I do for a particular client.

What you, Paladin, and PageOneResults have posted has been of great help.

Thanks.

pageoneresults




msg:3191108
 3:23 pm on Dec 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

There are months where I put in maybe ten or fifteen hours for this particular client, and get paid $600.

Working by the hour is not the best option for a professional SEO. In fact, many won't touch a campaign if the client is wanting to document and pay by the hour.

There's also months where I put in more than thirty hours. But that was when the client launched their new site.

30 x $150 (minimum) = $4,500

I enjoy the challenges of SEO work, even though it's very tedious. Sometimes downright boring.

Hmmm, me thinks you may not be ready just yet. I can't recall the last time I was bored doing this stuff. ;)

I don't think that $20 an hour is sufficient compensation. I can make that by being an assistant-to-the-assistant-manager at McDonalds.

$20 per hour? Are you in India maybe? Or another third world country outside the U.S.?

I also think that, once the site is created per my suggestions, the amount of time required per month diminishes.

Not really. If the campaign is active, there are things to do day in and day out if the client's budget permits.

Yes, there's always submissions to directories, requests for reciprocal links, tweaking new pages, writing press releases, and so on. But it seems to me--and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong--that there's a "grandfathering" effect with the SE's in which sites that are properly SEO'd gain ranking and maintain that ranking.

Yes, you are correct. But, it surely doesn't stop there!

A time may come when my boss and I lock horns on just how much I should be paid monthly or hourly for what I do for a particular client.

That time should be now. If you are a professional and can get solid results for a client's Internet property, then by all means, take your services elsewhere and earn what the average professional SEO is earning (anywhere from $100+ per hour).

Tell your boss to look for grunts outside the U.S. $20 per hour? That is downright embarrassing, a smack in the face!

Right now there's just one customer that I do work for on a monthly basis. I get paid $600 a month, and do ten to twenty hours of work on the customers site per month.

And your boss may be charging that client 5 times that much.

What we all want to know of course is how you got the reputation to get those few calls/emails per week. Any pointers much appreciated.

Community participation! I've been involved with forums since 1998. I've moderated at various fora over the years and have called WebmasterWorld home for almost 6 of those years.

After you get a couple of solid years under your belt of participating in a community, that time invested begins to bear rewards. People drop you a sticky asking for advice. You share a little bit. Next thing you know, they want to hire you to consult with their team and they are willing to pay you what you "are truly worth".

Experience, knowledge, salesmanship, etc. It is like any other profession where time is the key factor in establishing yourself as a highly paid and sought out professional.

pageoneresults




msg:3191147
 4:31 pm on Dec 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

Tell your boss to look for grunts outside the U.S. $20 per hour? That is downright embarrassing, a smack in the face!

You'll have to forgive me, I get a bit heated under the collar when I see these types of dollar numbers being discussed for SEO.

I live in Southern California. I've sat down and tried to figure out how one could survive making $20.00 per hour in California. Oh, don't get me wrong, many do it, but it's that Housing 2.0 (like Web 2.0) thing, it's all about community. :)

Okay, so let us look at what a professional SEO could do with one hour of their time. And then we need to look at what that one hour of time translates into for the client.

It has taken you years to educate yourself in this profession, and it is a profession. This isn't just sitting behind a computer doing freakin' data entry, that's grunt work and even then, here in sunny Southern California, I've seen the grunts do extremely well. ;)

A professional should charge accordingly. I may be able to do something in one or two hours that would take someone else a day or two to accomplish. I may have knowledge that is very valuable for that client and the end result of sharing that knowledge triples their online sales. Would it be fair to make $40.00 for sharing information that earned the client $400,000?

So, this is where it gets tricky. How do you effectively determine your worth? I typically look at it from the perspective of how much would the client pay to bring in an actual person to do this day in and day out? Most smaller to medium size businesses are not going to need a full time person in house. And with Housing 2.0, there is no need for them to incur that overhead. Plus, you will be hard pressed to find one person that can do everything needed to be done.

Hiring someone is out of the question for most. I can also tell you from experience that the market for hiring professional SEOs to come in house is very slim. So much so, that many companies have no other choice than to work with a third party provider.

Please, don't undersell yourself as a professional. SEO is not something that can be effectively priced per hour. And, if it is, you can expect that number to easily be in the $100 to $500 per hour range. And even higher if you are billing your services as a consultant on retainer and definitely not by the hour.

dickbaker




msg:3191378
 10:58 pm on Dec 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

pageoneresults, I've been reading your posts for several years, and have come to respect you very much.

I know what my boss is charging the client: $2000 a month. Of that, $800 was to go for PPC campaigns. However, he's having me hold off on the PPC until we establish which keywords are just so competitive that I can't get on the first page of the organic results. (Of course, he's still collecting that $800).

I realize it's a bad deal for me. However, up until now I've only had experience with two sites, and both those sites deal with guns. I've tried to market my services to a couple of other companies, but the gun stigma proved problematic.

I figure if I can work on a few sites in other industries, I can then either take the clients with me and go on my own, or ask if I can use them as referrals. Or just tell the boss that $600 a month per client isn't nearly enough.

"Tell your boss to look for grunts outside the U.S. $20 per hour? That is downright embarrassing, a smack in the face!"

Oh, my boss has suggested that he could get someone from India for far less. However, and he knows this very well I'm sure, I have a lot of contact with the client via email and phone. I'm articulate and sound professional. He'd be hard-pressed to get that combination in another country.

There are several clients of his that I've not had success with. There are several reasons: the sites are small and in very competitive industries; and the clients refuse to implement my suggestions. So, I wind up just running quarterly ranking reports and reminding them that they haven't done what I've told them to do.

I don't know how my skills compare to others, though, so I don't know if I'm worth as much as someone else. How does one go about measuring himself?

dickbaker




msg:3191416
 11:57 pm on Dec 17, 2006 (gmt 0)

By the way, Jeremy, I didn't mean to hijack your thread. If you want me to start another, just say so.

pageoneresults




msg:3191964
 2:00 pm on Dec 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I know what my boss is charging the client: $2000 a month. Of that, $800 was to go for PPC campaigns. However, he's having me hold off on the PPC until we establish which keywords are just so competitive that I can't get on the first page of the organic results. (Of course, he's still collecting that $800).

I'm afraid to comment on that one. ;) $800 for PPC but it has not been done yet and the boss is still charging the client?

I realize it's a bad deal for me.

Think of it as a learning experience, not a bad deal. We all have to start somewhere and just like any profession, you have to learn the ropes and do the grunt work. But, after a year or so, you should have a solid understanding of what needs to be done and move up the food chain. ;)

However, up until now I've only had experience with two sites, and both those sites deal with guns.

Not really enough breadth and/or depth to consider yourself a professional. You've got the gun industry under your belt, now you need to expand and diversify your understanding.

I've tried to market my services to a couple of other companies, but the gun stigma proved problematic.

I can understand that. It is all a matter of finding the right companies to market to with such a small portfolio of client sites. Just having two sites in your portfolio is stigma enough. But then again, those two sites could have been Fortune 1000. So, it all comes down to experience, knowledge and professionalism.

Know your stuff and things happen.

I figure if I can work on a few sites in other industries, I can then either take the clients with me and go on my own.

Check your employment agreement before doing so.

Or just tell the boss that $600 a month per client isn't nearly enough.

Ask for a raise or cut back on the time you allocate to the client for $600 per month.

Oh, my boss has suggested that he could get someone from India for far less.

Nothing wrong with that. It seems to be the trend and has been for years. Not only India, but a host of countries. I've been there, done that, am doing it, etc. In all instances I've dealt with, there were people involved from stateside that managed the overall campaign. If your boss wants to play middleman on communication, let him give it a try. ;)

He'd be hard-pressed to get that combination in another country.

Actually, he'd be hard-pressed to get that combination for $20.00 per hour. There is a quality pool of candidates in all of the countries I've dealt with and you'll pay a premium to have access to those.

There are several clients of his that I've not had success with. There are several reasons: the sites are small and in very competitive industries; and the clients refuse to implement my suggestions.

A waste of your valuable time.

So, I wind up just running quarterly ranking reports and reminding them that they haven't done what I've told them to do.

Hmmm, this is so 1999. Ranking reports every quarter? Does the boss also offer a submission service to a few thousands search engines and directories? ;)

I don't know how my skills compare to others, though, so I don't know if I'm worth as much as someone else.

It doesn't matter if you are worth as much as someone else. All that matters is how much "you" think you are worth which gives you a starting figure. You can negotiate from there.

How does one go about measuring himself?

Short example...

Client has a need to add dynamic functionality to their site. They hire a programmer. The programmer only knows what he is a professional at doing, programming. After the programming is done, the client now needs to hire a professional graphic designer to put together the GUI. Once the GUI is done, now the client needs to optimize the site and has to hire a professional.

Make yourself invaluable. Become the single point of contact for your clients. Don't let them call anyone else for their Internet requirements. I'm sure you know people who can program? Design? And then you can handle the SEO/SEM side of things? Put together a small network of friends and make things happen. Charge accordingly as professionals.

pageoneresults




msg:3191975
 2:16 pm on Dec 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've seen some people here saying they can land remote SEO jobs no problem with $5000+/month, I come from a freelance site background so just need to know - where can these great jobs be found?

Normally you don't just "find" these types of projects. They are earned.

Also consider that many $1,000 per month clients could easily turn into $5,000 per month clients.

You also might want to consider setting up your own site and doing some affiliate stuff. It helps to pay the bills while you build your other business.

I come from a freelance site background.

Hmmm, tough environment. Price usually wins. I can't comment much on that as I've never been one to sell price. Selling commodity products is brutal. SEO is not a commodity product although some still think that way. ;)

dickbaker




msg:3192468
 9:31 pm on Dec 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks, pageoneresults.

"Hmmm, this is so 1999. Ranking reports every quarter? Does the boss also offer a submission service to a few thousands search engines and directories? ;) "

How did you guess? ;)

I schedule them, and just let them run. I've told my boss that submissions aren't necessary. But he's selling the sizzle, not the steak.

"Client has a need to add dynamic functionality to their site...."

The new site I'm working on involves the same process. The programmer done the programming, and the designer has designed the site. However, the designer doesn't know layers, only tables. So I've taken his design and converted everything to tables, so that I can get the page content at the top of the source code, with the navigation next, and then all of the php code following.

I guess I just need to be patient, and keep slaving away.

GaryTheScubaGuy




msg:3199727
 7:19 am on Dec 26, 2006 (gmt 0)

Post your resume/CV on monster and career builder emphacising seo and a keyword. Recruiters will ring you from day one.

I lived in atlanta and placed a cv on the UK versions of them and was hired in 2 weeks.

Fortune Hunter




msg:3202045
 6:51 pm on Dec 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hmmm, this is so 1999. Ranking reports every quarter? Does the boss also offer a submission service to a few thousands search engines and directories?

Ok, I know this is going to sound naive, but what is wrong with ranking reports? Don't you need them to show progress?

pageoneresults




msg:3202054
 7:06 pm on Dec 28, 2006 (gmt 0)

Don't you need them to show progress?

I've not submitted a ranking report to a client in over five years. I request that my clients not focus on rankings but rather their ROI. The rankings will come naturally and in due time.

When I did provide ranking reports, it was somewhat stressful. All the whys and all the I want to be number one for this and that. Forget that! What a bunch of wasted time that is.

These days it is just a matter of looking at the bottom line figures. All the stuff that occurs before then, the client usually isn't that interested in. I'm referring to my clients only. I'm sure there are many who provide ranking reports every month. That is not the type of client I look for. There are far greater things to be concerned with other than ranking.

Sure, there will be a few key phrases that we might take a look at regularly. But for the most part, we look at the total number of unique searches that were performed where a visitor landed on one of our pages. As long as that number continues to grow, and the client's ROI continues to increase, everything is doing what it should be doing.

Micro-managing rankings is a tedious, time consuming and laborious task and one that shouldn't have to be done. All the client needs is a robust analytics package and they have everything they need. :)

Fortune Hunter




msg:3202414
 2:10 am on Dec 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

pageoneresults:

Makes sense, I am assuming that by ROI you are referring to Return on Investment and this case that is probably being measured by what? If the site is an eCommerce site sales would probably do the trick, but if the site is used as a lead generator or some other thing that doesn't directly record a sale it might be a little tougher tying results to your work. What would you do in a case like that?

Although I see your point about the rankings being just a step and not the end result.

FH

gpilling




msg:3202908
 3:51 pm on Dec 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

Why not stick with sites about guns for now? If you have ever been to the Shooting, Hunting and Outdoor tradeshow in Las Vegas, you would be stunned at how big the industry really is. I was doing some business consulting for a friend of a friend who displayed there, and I was AMAZED at how many companies there are in the industry.

The entire Las Vegas convention center was FULL of companies selling items in the gun industry. According to the ShotShow website, there were more than 1800 companies exhibiting - and I am sure most of them have a website that they would like to rank higher. Your previous experience will be an asset with this crowd, not a liability.

The next show is in January in Orlando.

dickbaker




msg:3203369
 11:35 pm on Dec 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

gpilling, I think any further references to the "widgets" in question would be a violation of terms of service.

I'm very much familiar with the trade show you refer to. And I have given some serious thought to approaching companies in the widget market.

The major manufacturers are generally already in first place for their products simply because their sites are the most logical if you're searching for "Acme widgets."

My site currently outranks two major manufacturers for the term "(manufacturer's name) widgets." I'm #1 and they're #2.

However, the widget industry as a whole is relatively small. Companies whose names almost everyone would recognize employ only a few hundred people.

Once you get past the major manufacturers, the companies--and thus the advertising budgets--get much smaller. Widget accessory manufacturers are not generally big businesses.

There are online widget retailers that do a huge business. I'm sure they already have someone doing SEO work for them, but it wouldn't hurt to let them know I'm here.

percentages




msg:3204273
 8:35 am on Dec 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

There is a very simple rule to SEO, of which 99.99999% of you are about to dimiss for a while!

The rule is this, if I can do it, why do it for someone else!?

dickbaker




msg:3204302
 9:49 am on Dec 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

percentages, I respect pageoneresults very much.

And, so, I question if your advice is along the same lines as his.

All I would ask of you is to make your point more clear.

Thanks,
Dick

percentages




msg:3204840
 8:02 am on Jan 1, 2007 (gmt 0)

>And, so, I question if your advice is along the same lines as his.

I believe my advice is similar. I think PageOne is saying that you should only work as an SEO if the fee is reasonable in your mind!.......I can't argue with that!

Some will work as SEO's for the right fee, I did it myself......a mistake in my mind (NOW)!

My point is a tad different......why work for someone else at all?

If you can really do SEO, then do you need someone to pay you! You can make money by working alone!

I worked as an SEO, running my own company for 5 years, before I realized that the clients were also the burden.

I made the clients tens of millions, they paid me several hundreds of thousands......then I realized I didn't need them at all....I could take the tens of millions and cut them out completely!

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.....whoever came up with that proverb was obviously an idiot........get the two in the bush!

dickbaker




msg:3206341
 11:49 pm on Jan 2, 2007 (gmt 0)

OK, percentages, now I understand your point.

Right now, I have a very limited track record, resume, portfolio, or whatever you'd like to call it.

In time, I'll either get better pay from the company I'm working for at the moment, or use the sites I've worked on as examples of what I can do.

This isn't the first time in my life that I've had to take short money up front to make better money down the road. When I was in photography school back in the late 1970's, I worked driving a truck for the city newspaper third shift for $5.85US per hour.

When I graduated, I got a job at a well-respected photo studio as an assistant for $3.25 an hour.

Within a year, I was making more than I did driving truck. After nine years, I was the highest-paid staff photographer in the state, and made more adjusted for inflation than I do now.

Sometimes you just have to make small sacrifices for large gains.

I hope I'm right. ;)

pageoneresults




msg:3206355
 12:10 am on Jan 3, 2007 (gmt 0)

My point is a tad different......why work for someone else at all?

Diversification. I have a few properties that generate income but my core business is filling the role of Internet Marketing Consultant.

I surely wouldn't want to take on the overhead that some of my clients do. I'm fine right where I'm at. I act as my clients' marketing department from a remote location. In exchange for those services, my clients take very good care of me. ;)

If you can really do SEO, then do you need someone to pay you! You can make money by working alone!

It's not that easy to do anymore. If you jumped on the bandwagon way back when and established yourself, then you are set. If you are a new SEO and just coming into the marketplace, you'll need to have a really unique product line or do something totally different than everyone else. The space is very crowded but there are plenty of open pockets here and there.

Small regional businesses is where the money is at for an up and coming SEO. The market is ripe at the local level and will be for quite some time. ;)

Jane_Doe




msg:3206511
 4:08 am on Jan 3, 2007 (gmt 0)

I can get major results in Google.com for keywords with 100s of 1,000,000s of keywords and have the vision to make truly first-rate sites.

You might make the most money then by just making your own sites and putting ads or affiliate links on them for income. Plus then you have a business you can sell if you ever want to do something different.

It is harder now than it was a few years ago to get new sites established and making money but there are still niches out there to be had, and I still new sites making into top rankings even in competitive niches.

[edited by: Jane_Doe at 4:12 am (utc) on Jan. 3, 2007]

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