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On Heels of Major Google Outage IBM Lowers Email Costs
Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 12:34 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

AP Story [izurl.com...]

...a bare-bones e-mail service that IBM is selling to companies for $36 annually per worker, undercutting a more comprehensive package of software applications that Google sells for $50 per user annually.

...given that Google's service suffered a highly publicized outage that locked out corporate customers for nearly two hours last month.

"Candidly, Google has shown itself to be weak" in some areas of e-mail, said Sean Poulley, an IBM executive overseeing the company's e-mail service. "There is a world of difference between supporting a consumer-grade service and a business-grade service."


 

tangor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 12:56 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

This report actually hit our local TV stations this morning. (Houston)

jaiganeshv

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 11:55 am on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google Apps is offering good service and is well established with small businesses, educational institutions, and non-profit organizations. not sure if IBM can overtake apps in these areas..

zett

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 2:53 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

Google Apps is offering good service...

Last time I checked, I could only find folks who actually complained that there is next to no service from Google.

...and is well established with small businesses, educational institutions, and non-profit organizations.

Is this just a gut feeling, or is this based on facts?

Hugene

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 3:06 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

Outages are actually common in any IT service, be it internal or external.

But then again, it looks horrible when it comes from the likes of Google, which by the share fact that it currently leading the push towards web services in the corporate environment has a lot of eyes and attention on it.

Basically, everyone is looking at Google to see how this migration towards the cloud is working or not: so they have a lot of pressure on their shoulders.

Knowing IBM intimately, I can bet tons of money that their outages will be even longer and more frequent than Google's, no doubt about this.

But Google should know better. I wonder why Gmail is crashing, whereas the SE never crashes (that I can remember).

ByronM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 3:06 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

yeah, gmail is a fantastic product

but google offering "Service"? surely, you gest..

Future

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 3:16 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

Yes, google offers enterprise level emails with charges upto 50 US$ per year.
They have many more enterprise level products, more can be read here
[googleenterprise.blogspot.com...]

ByronM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 3:26 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

when i think of "Service" i mean the act of calling for help and talking to a human being who can help you.. not the fact that google offers "services" :)

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 5:57 pm on Oct 2, 2009 (gmt 0)

LotusLive iNotes

Brett's trying to kill me...

IBM trying to milk money more money out of Notes and it's lame duck email product, sigh.

Even Ray Ozzie, the creator of Notes, fled his own creation and landed at Microsoft.

Didn't anyone get the memo?

The only real nugget in that article is Google selling enterprise products without enterprise support, not surprising but it won't last when some CEO's can't get their own email or get someone on the phone to help.

plumsauce

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 4:39 am on Oct 3, 2009 (gmt 0)

IBM has several strengths when compared to google.

Experience in servicing business markets.

A sales force.

Brand recognition.

Past and current business relationships in the market.

Experience in delivering customer service.

Experience in delivering services.

Call IBM at 4AM, and a real live level 3 tech will take the time to run into the lab to try to duplicate your problem on your exact hardware and software configuration.

IBM has incredible patience when it comes to winning a market. Or, at least, the profitable segments.

Reliability? Ever run an AS/400? Uptime is measured in years.

And finally, the old mantra, "no one ever got fired for buying IBM".

[edited by: plumsauce at 4:43 am (utc) on Oct. 3, 2009]

plumsauce

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 4:41 am on Oct 3, 2009 (gmt 0)

But Google should know better. I wonder why Gmail is crashing, whereas the SE never crashes (that I can remember).

Actually, it crashes regularly, you just don't see it because the dead machines are bypassed at the network level.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 5:45 am on Oct 3, 2009 (gmt 0)

And finally, the old mantra, "no one ever got fired for buying IBM".

That mantra died when idiots were still buying minicomputers when a single desktop machine on a LAN could do the same job, more efficiently and inexpensively.

See if you get fired for spending $400K on IBM when all you need is $100K on DELL.

Un-em-ploy-ment-line

wormman

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 11:51 am on Oct 3, 2009 (gmt 0)

It looks like all of Google is crashing this morning. I can't get on adsense and analytics and it looks like sites with Google ads are loading slower. Weird. Youtube is slow also.

ByronM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 7:46 pm on Oct 3, 2009 (gmt 0)


See if you get fired for spending $400K on IBM when all you need is $100K on DELL.

By the time you pay for support services & extended contracts with Dell you were probably better off signing a deal with IBM :)

BTW, Dell support is a JOKE unless you pay for extended support and even then you have to usually call the joke support before you get to real support.

BTW, i personally can't stand notes... But i'll take an IBM Lenovo notebook over a dell anyday.

grelmar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 7:55 am on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Rule of Corporate Management:

If you're in need of some "divide and conquer" of your IT department (you know, around that salary renegotiation time of year), just send out a memo asking for "Alternate Solutions to the current backend email software". You can blow department unity out of the water with that debate.

You get 15 different open source suggestions from various factions, and middle management spewing out lovely powerpoints, flowcharts, and pie graphs, generously provided by IBM, MS, and SAP to promote their "corporate" solutions.

3 months later, you're still using the same old server side software because the old Unix Guru finally crawls out of his cave long enough to point out what a costly, risky, massive pain in the @$$ it would be to transition, regardless of how bad the current situation is, and everyone realizes the year end raises have come and gone at just slightly below inflation.

ogletree

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ogletree us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 8:24 am on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

IBM does not make lenovo. They sold that to somebody else.

Label_Lady

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 1:44 pm on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

The gmail outage was bad for us as an e-commerce company. Our customers expect an instant response and two hours is too long to be down.

kaled

WebmasterWorld Senior Member kaled us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 2:21 pm on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

IBM does not make lenovo. They sold that to somebody else.

IBM never did make Lenovo, Lenovo make Lenovo computers!

IBM sold their Thinkpad range of laptops to Lenovo (China). The designs remained unchanged initially - I'm not sure how things stand in that regard now, but they are still pricey.

Kaled.

J_RaD

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 2:50 pm on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

I also like IBM thinkpads!

phranque

WebmasterWorld Administrator phranque us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 9:38 pm on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

let's all please stay on topic for this thread, which is the recently announced IBM LotusLive iNotes email service in light of the Gmail outage.

the IBM/lenovo thinkpad is not on topic.

tangor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tangor us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 10:15 pm on Oct 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Dislike LotusNotes all you like (it still feels kludgy), it is rock solid. At an enterprise level that is something to consider. Meanwhile, I don't trust the "do no harm" company and have never recommended their "service" in this regard. G tracks everything...

plumsauce

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 2:26 am on Oct 6, 2009 (gmt 0)

That mantra died when idiots were still buying minicomputers when a single desktop machine on a LAN could do the same job, more efficiently and inexpensively.

See if you get fired for spending $400K on IBM when all you need is $100K on DELL.

Un-em-ploy-ment-line

Nope. In some places, to this day proposing to buy DELL can be damaging to your career. Why? Because people have long memories.

In some other places, DELL is not on the approved vendors list. Plain and simple. Cannot buy it period. Didn't make it through the acceptance lab. Yes, some places still have acceptance labs.

Inefficiency includes spending valuable man hours dealing with problems that should not be there. Such as the DELL response: "Yes, we guarantee that the PERC raid card is compatible with MSSQL. No, we don't guarantee that it will reach the specified IOPS, or that it will perform well." Huh? That's hardly the answer the storage architect was hoping to hear. Scratch that purchase.

DEC/Compaq would come in with a full VAX installation and benchmark it on real customer loads with customer software before the customer signed off on payment. Payment being contingent on meeting the pre-sales engineering spec.

Paralleling the citation of inefficiency above, almost anyone with any systems experience is going to make the connection that dealing with IBM support is going to be a whole lot easier than trying to get results out of the google support "mechanism", aka canned email responses. Especially if the organisation has an existing dedicated support channel. IBM sales engineers will move heaven and earth to make something happen for their sponsored organisations. Their income depends on it. Google will only move heaven and earth to misplace them on google maps as per SOP.

There were nine points where the suggestion was made that IBM had a edge. The mantra was not one of them. It was simply a reference to an old adage. Perhaps in your view, none of the strengths was even worth thinking about. Google, in their usual blindered web 2.0 view of business may think the same way. To their detriment. Good for them.

IBM has another strength. They take the long view in the markets that they pursue. And they have the deep pockets to do it. Case in point, DB/2 in all its incarnations over decades of development.

IBM has bench strength and stamina. They are a formidable foe in any of their chosen markets.

HP/COMPAQ and SUN may be my current weapons of choice, but I would never discount the abilities of IBM.

plumsauce

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 2:35 am on Oct 6, 2009 (gmt 0)

Dislike LotusNotes all you like (it still feels kludgy), it is rock solid. At an enterprise level that is something to consider. Meanwhile, I don't trust the "do no harm" company and have never recommended their "service" in this regard. G tracks everything...

Exactly. There are two pieces of software that large institutions like banks consider indispensible. Lotus or Exchange. Pick one, either one, nothing else. No, twitter or facebook just won't cut it.

As far as allowing Google to peek at everything that goes through, legal is going to have fits. And so are the regulators.

There is a huge difference between hosting at a provider who has an interest in the data only insofar as the data is safe and availabe, and a provider who explicitly says "we actively mine the data".

Every admin has full access on their systems. It is a matter of trust, and whether they take an active interest in the actual contents. Professionals would never dream of looking, no matter how easy it is. Using gmail is like having a very nosy junior admin who takes a very active interest in everything stored on every accesible drive.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 3999858 posted 5:18 am on Oct 6, 2009 (gmt 0)

Notes maybe be rock solid now but I remember the going joke was (inside Lotus even) that buying notes meant you actually hires a full time Notes admin and the software came free.

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