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How many WW members professional webmasters?
wolfadeus




msg:3523991
 8:55 am on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Are there any reliable estimates on how many of the slightly more senior WW members - say "preferred" or older - managed to develop and monetise websites beyond the "magical" border of 100 USD/day?

To make a start: I havn't.

I have asked this question in this forum in 2005, after just discovering the wonderful world of web development. I wonder whether attitudes/the situation has changed since then.

 

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:3524047
 11:14 am on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Does $100/per day make you a professional webmaster? If so I too must confess to failure.

wolfadeus




msg:3524053
 11:41 am on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

The 100 USD/d border is often used as the point where you generate an income that is comparable to what you make from a "normal" job - at least in most European countries, North America and other colonial places that are part of the so-called "1st World". That's why I brought it up.

So even if you are not a professional webmaster, with 100 $/d you *could* live on your websites.

wolfadeus




msg:3524189
 3:54 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

C'mon ladies and gentlemen, I am not asking you to come out with your tax certificates - I am just wondering about an assumption of mine: Either you are part of a tiny group of people here on WW that makes a lot more than the magic 100, or you are part of the vast number of gold diggers stil in hope, but bob up and down on something much lower...

Re-phrasing the question: Of those webmasters that participate in forums regularly, do you think there are more than 3 percent beyond the 100 border?

This might be interesting for newbies, too, since they often take advice from senior members as very valuable - without doubting their succuss.

HelenDev




msg:3524242
 5:09 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Neither. I work for an organisation as a web developer, and I'm guessing lots of other people here fall into that category?

LifeinAsia




msg:3524264
 5:28 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

$100/day is only $36K/year- almost poverty level in parts of the U.S. :) And if you exclude weekends and holidays, it's closer to $25K.

But anyway, according to that level, I guess I'm a "professional." I'd have to go back to last year's numbers and take out the amounts for consulting that wasn't directly related to the sites (although most of the work at least indirectly came from them originally) to confirm, but I'm pretty sure it's above that point.

By the way, a more meaningful metric may be to divide the amount by the actual number of hours worked. You'll probably find that a lot of the "real" professionals work a lot fewer hours than the hopefulls (at least now, anyway- they probably worked a lot longer hours in the begining when they were "hopefulls"). Looking at it that way, you will probably find that the "hourly rate" is far below what people are making at "real" jobs, especially when you factor in company benefits.

But it all comes down to that difficult-to-measure "quality of life" metric: the freedom to work when/where you want, work on what you want, how you want (in boxer shorts and a 3-day beard), etc. Lots of people are happier making less money but with more flexibility in their lifestyle.

[edited by: LifeinAsia at 5:35 pm (utc) on Dec. 10, 2007]

limoshawn




msg:3524268
 5:38 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Only a "Junior Member" here, however I have been living quite well off of my websites for over 5 years now. Yes, more than $100 per day.

Jane_Doe




msg:3524292
 6:05 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Online polls with unverified income data are kind of useless because so many people lie. Have you read the book Freakonomics? It is pretty funny how many people lie on online dating sites about their income, looks, weight, etc. Four percent of online daters claimed to make over $200,000 a year while in reality fewer than one percent of typical Internet users make that amount. So I suspect on webmaster sites where people are pushing their blogs, newsletters, trying to sell their web sites to investors, get free publicity, sell their consulting services, trying to make money off ebooks that tell people how to make money from selling ebooks, etc. the incentive to lie about their income is going to be just as great, if not greater.

[edited by: Jane_Doe at 6:09 pm (utc) on Dec. 10, 2007]

King_Fisher




msg:3524328
 6:39 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Yes a $ 100.00 should be a good bench mark for a pro. working in this field.

However a lot of proficient web master or not in it for the income. Some have a cause to espouse, to some its a hobby, others are in it for the social aspect.

As for myself some times I am over that amount and some times under(way under!)

I do this for a living plus some part time work...KF

jtara




msg:3524449
 8:47 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

OK, I know what you are asking, but I'm not sure this is a correct usage of "professional webmaster".

I think the term should be used to refer to somebody who does webmasterly duties full-time. Usually, for somebody else - for a salary or hourly fee.

What we have here on WebmasterWorld are mostly website owners. Mostly smaller - hobby sites and sideline businesses. But some much larger than that, as well as some actual professional webmasters.

Being a website owner doesn't necessarily make one a webmaster, though out of necessity many perform those duties. I think also that much of what the website owners here deal with day-to-day falls outside of what I would consider the duties of a webmaster.

For example, SEO. I wouldn't consider SEO to be among the duties of a webmaster. It's a separate profession.

Ditto, programming. Although a webmaster should know their way around simple scripting, I think programming per-se is outside of the realm of webmastering.

Content creation, thinking-up ideas for new sites, site concept, site design. I don't consider any of this "webmastering".

In a sense, I think WebmasterWorld is inaccurately-named. But "WebsiteOwnersWorld" is too long. ;) (And available - let's see how long it lasts - I'll take a pass, but I give it 24 hours.)

rocknbil




msg:3524455
 9:01 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Part of the reluctance is no one wishes to cast themselves in one way or another. Some days I make $500 per day. Some days zilch. Some days I just goof off because it's all too much. :-)

Another factor for the independent is that money made is not directly mine. An example is my wife's business which is retail. She's making the bread, not me, but since I put it into place and the dough comes into our household I guess you could say I'm making it . . .

Another is, I have discovered my place in life is an enabler. Did you ever notice how mechanics often drive the worst piece of junk on the road? Yet they maintain everyone else's expensive cars and are highly recommended.

My personal projects suck. There it is. But my clients are making buttloads of money. For some reason it is easier for me to do it for someone else. They pay me well, or at least enough, but I can't classify it on a per day value.

So I don't know if $100 per day or $500 per day is a benchmark, really.

dnm2112




msg:3524460
 9:05 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

If you mean do I make over $100 per day webmastering for myslef and others.. then yes.. Im a professional.

dnm2112




msg:3524462
 9:05 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

LOL.. too bad I can't spell....

superpower




msg:3524476
 9:25 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

You can be a "professional webmaster" and be losing money every day or be working with/for somebody else.

"Webmaster": a generalist who is responsible for integrating web technologies, ui/design, marketing and programming into an online product.

"Professional Webmaster": a webmaster who derives (or attempts to derive) most of their income from being a webmaster OR who spends most of their time being a webmaster.

$200 profit/day self-employed is a good goal and very possible with some initial hard work.

The real key is to automate your success. Once you have something that makes $10/day without requiring any work from you then you just ramp up the same concept to $20,$50,$100 etc.

I used to work a ton of hours but the last 2 years have been making $200/day without much effort. Of course anything can change so I still do a lot of R&D, buy domains for future sites and try to keep things fresh.

bateman_ap




msg:3524516
 10:13 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Have to earn multiple of that a hour to pay the staff!

superpower




msg:3524547
 10:43 pm on Dec 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Staff isn't necessary at first if you set things up right and learn about marketing and web technology. That is, if you are a webmaster, and not just a writer/editor or graphic designer. (takes some technical skill)

btw read this book (google it): "The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich"

That basically describes my method, although I did it way before the book came out.

steveooo




msg:3524732
 3:14 am on Dec 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

Im a new member, long time reader. I run 70 sites and make about 100 a day, more this year cause I sold one of them to germany.

nomis5




msg:3524840
 7:00 am on Dec 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm above the US$100 per day and I live off my own websites.

Lipik




msg:3525080
 3:30 pm on Dec 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

< 100$/day

gpilling




msg:3525110
 3:51 pm on Dec 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

I have used my websites as a springboard to make two businesses with a combined revenue of $3M per year, in less than 4 years. Does that count?

Probably not, since 90% the business is not conducted online.....

Badger37




msg:3526000
 5:24 pm on Dec 12, 2007 (gmt 0)

I think you are asking two different questions.

"How many WW members are professional webmasters?"

Yes I count myself a professional as I don't work in any other field.

"monetise websites > $100 a day"

You don't have to be a "professional webmaster" to 'monitise' a site - and vice-versa. Earning money from a monitised site is a different question.

wolfadeus




msg:3526614
 11:07 am on Dec 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

"Once you have something that makes $10/day without requiring any work from you then you just ramp up the same concept to $20,$50,$100 etc."

:)

I agree, but this requires a lot of time and effort...especially if the first $10/d took two years to come.

malcolmcroucher




msg:3527128
 9:28 pm on Dec 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

222 working days a year .
$10 a day = 2220

100 a day = 22200

I think the trick is to work smarter not harder.
a link from blog may give you page rank a little help but will nothing compared to a link from a online paper.

"Luck (success) is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

I think main thing is getting multiple income streams from a variety of projects .

The other thing is adsense , if you creating a site and optimising it and then relying on income from affiliate advertising , then you should really re-evauate what you doing .

You need to generate stable income which is tough in the web business as it can be so haphazard.

I think you need to distinguish between entrepreneurs and web masters . big difference . Entrepreneurs code , design , SEO , host , and everything , webmasters are webmasters.
Maybe something like a webeneur (entrepreneur for the web).

The thing i do . If I go to the mall . I try and identify ten small opportunities to make money. I write them down and give tem a bash . Eventually okay 100 ideas will create 1 good idea which will be a stable income stream. There are more opportunities than people in this world. You just gotta find them.

Enough Malcolm

Cheers

malcolmcroucher




msg:3527161
 10:04 pm on Dec 13, 2007 (gmt 0)

I dont have the magical formuala to make you warren buffet , bill gates , sergey brin or anyone like that . But if you start looking at some things some successful people have done you'll pick up and maybe project yourself into a small something like that person.

Persistance . Its never a bad thing to be so stubborn that you will try everything to make something succeed. Mister Eastman who founded Eastman (now kodak camera's) used to stay up all night developing camera's sometime for 72 hours in a row . Thats stubborn

Vision . Its never a bad thing to think hey maybe in 5 years time more people will be surfing than ever , more people clicking . Consumers will be web savvy . so maybe i can make tourism video about my countries speacial "dance?" and make a website about it . and sell tours to see that dance or something.

Entrepreneurship. Its never a bad thing to approach the new real estate agent up the road and make a website for him. He just might say yes. Wham 100 dollars . Everyone here has the skills its not that hard. its a start.(it may not be your business but it just give you some extra money , or something )

if he says no : try someone else or offer him a cheaper alternative .
50% of sales people give up after one call
30% of sales people give up after two calls
10% of sales people give up after three calls
5% of sales people give up after four calls
2% just keep going back and make 80% of all calls.

wolfadeus




msg:3527468
 7:29 am on Dec 14, 2007 (gmt 0)

"2% just keep going back and make 80% of all calls."

And once they are done with that, they send me e-mails promoting their business of selling little blue pills... ;)

I do agree with your point that widening your portfolio of web-activities is something that "secures" your income. This is actually where I am personally going now.

However, keep in mind that there are not that many businesses that can be "translated" to the web - it demands easy (ie. cheap) shipping.

As for the amount one needs to make: I think the commonly mentioned benchmark talks about 100 USD/d on average of every day, so 3,000 Dollars a month or approx. 35,000 a year. At least that is what I meant and I think it equals a Western middle-class income.

novustek




msg:3527562
 10:48 am on Dec 14, 2007 (gmt 0)

I work 9 to 5 for an electronics company in the UK im responsible for all aspects of the companys website, development, marketing etc etc.

Do i consider my self a professional? im starting too, i have had some good success since joining the company.

I could not put a figure on the success though in monetery terms. i dont think you can gauge professionalism based on daily income.

nomis5




msg:3528113
 9:06 pm on Dec 14, 2007 (gmt 0)

Are we loosing track of the initial post? As I read it, Wolfadeus wanted an idea of how many of here at Webmasterworld were earning a minimal living plus from our own activities on the web (aka "professional webmaster"). If that was the question, why so few "yes > $100 per day" or "no < $100 per day" answers?

It begs the question, are there very few of webmasterworld members that actually cross the $100 per day? Where are the posters that appear so often in other posts? Come on guys, give us a yes or no answer. Declaring above or below $100 is not going to cause a problem with the tax people.

nomis5




msg:3528115
 9:12 pm on Dec 14, 2007 (gmt 0)

Posted twice in error

Demaestro




msg:3528135
 9:51 pm on Dec 14, 2007 (gmt 0)

> $500 a day but that is across several sites and they all have varying methods of earning income.

Someone said if you can get it to $10 a day then you can get it to $100.

I am of the opinion if you can get one site to $10 a day then you can get 9 more sites to the same.... or if you can get 1 site to do $1 a day you can get 99 more do to the same.

It is all about volume for me.

I based it off a simple principle....

Let's say you have a recipe for cookies. You place an ad in the paper and offer to send the recipe to anyone who sends you $1

Now if you can make $10 a month of that ad in one paper, then what happens if you run the same ad in 10 papers? 100 papers?

A little labor intensive but it works.

[edited by: Demaestro at 9:51 pm (utc) on Dec. 14, 2007]

httpwebwitch




msg:3529249
 4:50 am on Dec 17, 2007 (gmt 0)

I work 9-5 for "the man" with a salary; aside from that my web earnings fall quite short of the $100/day threshold. In my spare time I do mostly "hobby" projects that don't rake in much $ (though happily they are self-sustaining, ie they pay for my time spent + their own server and hosting costs).

That may change within the next year

This 40 message thread spans 2 pages: 40 ( [1] 2 > >
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