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YouTube: Warner Music Group claiming that this material is infringing
Its a video of my son playing a piano song of a popular movie song
XtendScott




msg:3829093
 10:16 pm on Jan 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

WARNER MUSIC GROUP vs. YouTube and I am considered Guilty until proven innocent with the video being taken down.

Dear Member:

This is to notify you that we have removed or disabled access to the following material as a result of a third-party notification by WARNER MUSIC GROUP claiming that this material is infringing:

With the breakup of talks between WARNER MUSIC GROUP and YouTube, I could see them wanting to take down their music, but they are claiming, the video I made of MY son, playing a song HE created from memory. The name of that popular movie theme song was in the Title, but there was additional description about my son.

This is YouTube not wanting to verify the claims and I am assumed to be guilty.

I now have to follow directions for a Counter Notice [google.com] to prove it is not copyright infringement.

Anyone else seeing more of this since the WARNER MUSIC GROUP and YouTube Breakup?

 

StoutFiles




msg:3829133
 11:42 pm on Jan 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

If the music he is playing is not the infringing material they want removed, then upload the video again without the title of the song.

YouTube may only have 24 hours to remove copyrighted material so they don't have time to check every video. Given the fact that YouTube is a harbor for copyrighted material, they must be removing tons of videos per day.

Samizdata




msg:3829148
 12:22 am on Jan 19, 2009 (gmt 0)

As I understand it you dont have to prove anything.

Simply send the counter notice affirming that your son is the copyright holder.

Warner would then have to take you to court to prove their case - which they can't.

Assuming you uploaded the video to publicize your son's talents, the story of how he is being bullied by a powerful corporation would help your cause when reported in the local press.

Google/YouTube are not at fault here, they have no option.

...

XtendScott




msg:3829155
 12:45 am on Jan 19, 2009 (gmt 0)

Can the DMCA cover a reference to a title of a song? Could the infringing material be the mentioning of the song name?

As with the RIAA and the colleges wanting more "proof" before providing student information, you would hope that YouTube would follow some of that. It would also be more beneficial to me(the user) to know which part is considered infringing.

Assuming you uploaded the video to publicize your son's talents, the story of how he is being bullied by a powerful corporation would help your cause when reported in the local press.

For us it's more of a sharing with family and friends, but getting a bit more attention to the WARNER MUSIC GROUP and blanket claim to copyright and it effecting original user content should be brought forward.

Samizdata




msg:3829175
 1:35 am on Jan 19, 2009 (gmt 0)

Many, many songs (and books, and movies) share the same title.

My guess is that Warner used an automated process and have never seen or heard the content.

GoogleTube has a duty in law to act in a timely manner when copyright violation is claimed, hence the takedown - but they also provide a method for counter claim that is easy to use, and may reinstate your video if you use it.

The GoogleTube position is that if they don't act on a complaint then they are no longer exempt under "safe harbor" provisions. I suspect that in the vast majority of cases the copyright infringement is real, they remove the offending item and never hear any more about it.

If, as in your case, the complaint is disputed, then GoogleTube - quite rightly - refuses to act as judge and jury in what is a legal dispute, and leaves it to the courts.

My bet is that if you counter claim somebody at Warner's legal department will actually have to look at your son's video and will very quickly understand and withdraw the complaint.

I doubt that they will apologise, but if he is really good they might sign him.

...

XtendScott




msg:3831650
 8:41 pm on Jan 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

I have sent a DMCA Counter Claim 2 days ago. The video is still listed as "Copyright Infringment". It was not deleted and in some manor still accessible from a site that had it embeded and limited access in the "My Videos" console area.

I will continue to wait and see how long this process takes, but does this mean anyone can make a claim without proof or just the chosen few that have lots of money and attorneys.

buckworks




msg:3831669
 9:02 pm on Jan 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

From the thread title:

video of my son playing a piano song of a popular movie song

Something needs clarification here.

If he is playing a "popular movie song", it IS copyright infringement to publish his performance without obtaining permission from the copyright holder. It does not matter if it's his own arrangement of the music; copyright applies to derivative works.

On the other hand, if it's a completely original composition that merely happened to have the same name, you'd have a case for contesting the infringement claim.

Get advice from a lawyer who is experienced in these matters. The last thing you'd want would be to end up with a "let's make an example of him" lawsuit on your hands.

Marcia




msg:3831676
 9:04 pm on Jan 21, 2009 (gmt 0)

Here's what BMI (the authoritative source) says about song and title copyrights:

8. Are song titles copyrightable?
No. However, sometimes a particular title becomes connected with one particular song (such as “Tie A Yellow Ribbon Round The Ole Oak Tree”). In that case, anyone else attempting to use that title for their song would likely be in violation of property rights in the title, which belong to the copyright owner of the first song because of its notoriety.

[bmi.com...]

Songs that are recorded are first published with paperwork being sent out accordingly, at the time the pieces are first accepted for publication.

XtendScott




msg:3831952
 4:54 am on Jan 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

"If he is playing a "popular movie song", it IS copyright infringement to publish his performance without obtaining permission from the copyright holder. It does not matter if it's his own arrangement of the music; copyright applies to derivative works."

I can understand that and that may be the issue. The song if I may is Star Wars related, not sure if the exact term would be allowed in this case. For the actual title there are still many more videos with the exact song title in the title of the video. This wasn't a "performance" but a home recording to share with family.

Many videos that still remain, have no original content as they use exact soundtracks and stills from the movie. This in my mind in much more serious of a copyright infringement.

Buckworks, if you wish I could share a location with you where the embeded video still work as of now.

Marcia




msg:3831961
 5:13 am on Jan 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

It's not the "original composition", it's use of the title; even with something added, it's a derivative work.

anyone else attempting to use that title for their song would likely be in violation of property rights in the title, which belong to the copyright owner of the first song because of its notoriety.

That's exactly the case, with BMI and ASCAP backing them all the way.

Robert Charlton




msg:3832004
 6:30 am on Jan 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

...The song if I may is Star Wars related....

I've worked for Lucasfilm and seen firsthand how aggressively they enforce their copyrights. I've also seen who ceased and desisted and dumped considerable media investments because of the mere suggestion by Lucasfilm of innappropriate similarity.

I can't comment about the other videos, why Warner Music might go after an adaptation rather than copied originals, or why Warner Music rather than Lucasfilm has complained... but if this is indeed Star Wars related, I'd take the video down and keep it off the internet.

This wasn't a "performance" but a home recording to share with family.

Then share it with the family... not with YouTube's 100-million other users. Burn a DVD, send it by US Mail, and warn everybody in the family not to upload it to YouTube. If the family still has VHS machines, you might be better off sending VHS cassettes.

Samizdata




msg:3832024
 7:48 am on Jan 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

playing a song HE created

My previous answers were based on that quote from the opening post.

It seemed to claim that the piece was an original composition. Apparently it wasn't.

The song if I may is Star Wars related

That is very different to merely having the words "star wars" in the title, as suggested.

Example: I have a commercially-issued recording named "Star Wars Won't Work", which is not copyright infringement, being an original composition unrelated to the movie.

This wasn't a "performance"

As others have stated, if it's on the web it is public performance.

The fact that GoogleTube is full of other copyright infringements is no excuse.

The old saying "don't mess with the mouse" applies equally to droids.

...

StoutFiles




msg:3832255
 2:46 pm on Jan 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

I can understand that and that may be the issue. The song if I may is Star Wars related, not sure if the exact term would be allowed in this case. For the actual title there are still many more videos with the exact song title in the title of the video.

That's life. Some people always get the breaks.

sn't a "performance" but a home recording to share with family.

Then upload it again with a different title name that no one will care about, then sind that link to your family. Or just email them the video instead. Otherwise, it seems it's not just for friends and family.

Many videos that still remain, have no original content as they use exact soundtracks and stills from the movie. This in my mind in much more serious of a copyright infringement.

Life isn't fair.

[edited by: StoutFiles at 2:47 pm (utc) on Jan. 22, 2009]

XtendScott




msg:3832283
 3:19 pm on Jan 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

So every video on YouTube where a person sings or plays a song and has the name of the song in the title is infringing the original copyright?

edit:phrasing

[edited by: XtendScott at 3:24 pm (utc) on Jan. 22, 2009]

StoutFiles




msg:3832286
 3:24 pm on Jan 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

So every video on YouTube where a person...

Pretty much, yes. There's just too much web content out there to review it all but the vast majority breaks copyright laws.

XtendScott




msg:3832610
 10:16 pm on Jan 22, 2009 (gmt 0)

So YouTube needs a slot so I can put a coin in the coffer to pay THE MAN.

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