sounds like you are happy sticking with tables. but it also sounds like you already know a load of CSS already, but cant get the layouts to work. but have you seen those sites on the web that offer ready-made CSS layouts? you can pick the number of columns, rows, headers, footers, whatever you want, and it spits out all the CSS that is compatible with all the different browsers. maybe that is an easy way to do it. try googling "css layouts"