paynt - 4:53 am on May 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

If Internet agencies / web designer know that they will get a nice cut out of the revenue, wouldn’t that motivate them to use an SEO early in the process? - Torben Lundsgaard

I’m reading back through this thread and thinking about what’s presented here. I think you have a point here Torben, though what I’ve seen and in much of my own experiences with designers is that when it comes back to them from their clients that their site is great looking but no one is visiting is when the designer seeks out help. Often they come here to Webmaster World and we do what we can to help with advice and direction, others then realize that it might be in their interest to hire on professional help.

None of use really can or should do it all. I can’t, won’t, and probably shouldn’t design and the same goes for the technical aspects. The difference is I really respect those skills and realize that hooking up with good folk who have a similar approach to development acts more as a win/win than not. We can also take on more work with a greater variety which really makes life interesting.

Most of our design is neat and tidy, but nothing that says 'Wow' that looks great - IanTurner

Boy Ian, that’s for sure why I hook up with designers. You really have to find the right ones though, that will respect what you have to offer and what you can bring to their clients. I’m on the quest for the ‘wholesome’ client who wants it all to look good and either has all the money it takes to promote the bells and whistles or simply accepts that ultimately their pocket decides.

Bottom line: we need a solid, substantial methodology. Projects will take longer and cost more but we'll get them right. And it always costs even more still to fix it later. – AussieStu

Right on!

I think what has helped make the transformation for all of us professionals is the digging through log files: once you start really seeing what's going on, anybody with a curious mind is naturally going to start asking "why didn't they click past the product order page?" or "what was it about the site that made them abandon their shopping cart"? - jeremy Goodrich

Hello! Key point here. I mentioned this in another thread recently and it simply astounds me that folks don’t even know how to read their logs, no I mean access their logs, or was it ‘even realize they have logs!’ Ok, I’d like to get off this bandstand but hello folks – wake up. There is crucial and viable information here and it takes someone who knows and appreciates SEO to connect with this. Obviously the lay public who sets up a web site doesn’t. Why are hosts not pushing this information? They should be informing and educating their clients. Shame!

The biggest problems I run into come from the decisions which were not addressed at all – tedster

How could you possibly not agree with that?

It's amazing how many companies will develop a substantial web project giving no thought to their expected response and related response mechanisms. tedster

Again, what a great point and what does this tell us? What it says to me is there are so many pieces of the pie cut up and who is ultimately responsible or accountable for the project? Who’s in charge? What do they really know and if you’re putting a project together that you expect to draw money from then who do you really want in charge? What do you want and need them to know? What are the questions you should be asking and what questions would they be asking you?
I want to go through this whole discussion but it’s becoming another case of me going on and on so I’ll break here and reflect. Before I go though I want to respond to another excellent comment by fathom.

Marketing to the potential client to design for a potential online market while at the same time trying to market to the clients potential online markets so that the design creates the desire to buy. (in the case of sales and ROI) - fathom

Such is our work [and what a sentence fathom]. Where once we only needed to draw in traffic and then as SEO we discussed converting that traffic to sales and I agreed – geez what more do you want? Now it’s become, just let me take on the project ‘cause if I can work with the various people involved with respect [hello again but the key] then we can come up with something pretty great here’.
Ah! Enough for the night and an exciting topic tedster, and again my thanks and appreciation for bringing it up. We have a ways to go. Personally I think this forum does nothing but help and support our quest. Clients will certainly benefit from the bits and pieces we bring to them from what we learn here. I’ve learned so much tonight from reading through and taking the time to process the content offered here. You are all so great and my sincere thanks for your sharing.