mivox - 9:36 pm on Mar 26, 2001 (gmt 0)

My apologies. I have, over the past couple of years, become very 'down' on FP and the vast majority of it's users.

Perhaps all the FrontPage code I've seen was generated with the little FP 'helper' bots. Having *never* seen clean FrontPage code, and *never* heard from anyone who managed to produce validating code with FP, I assumed it could not be done.

The vast majority of the FP users I've talked to knew virtually nothing about good graphic design... web promotion... appropriate image optimization... nothing about anything they needed to know. And yet, they bought FP and a yellow page ad and became 'professional web designers'.

While there are some knowledgable FP users out there, they are definitely the minority, and dealing with the majority has built up a lot of knee-jerk negativity for me.

However, I wasn't coming at the discussion from a hand-coder's perspective. I fully understand that a WYSIWYG editor is a HUGE time-saver, and a great help for folks like me who are more comfortable working visually. And I've gotten my share of 'down-the-nose-looking' for using one.

Here is my personal summary of the HTML prestige hierarchy:

Notepad/BBEdit - the hard-core hand coders look down on anyone who uses any kind of WYSIWYG interface. From these folks, I (a lowly GoLive user) would get the same treatment as the lowliest FP user.

HotDog/HoTMetaL/etc. - those strange 'hand-code-helper' apps that the ocassional hand-coder will stoop to using for efficiency's sake.

Dreamweaver - The social caviar of the WYSIWYG crop. DW users can get grudging respect from hand-coders, if they emphasize how often they use DW's code-editing window, and sneer a lot about any auto-scripting functions DW may have.

GoLive - Ranks below Dreamweaver, because it's not nearly as popular. But, can get grudging respect from hand-coders a bit more easily, because the hand-coders know very little about it, it also has a code-editing window, it has a built-in HTML validator, and it's made by Adobe, who puts out the serious and God-like program: PhotoShop.

HomeSite/other little-known WYSIWYGs - Rank below GL or DW because very few use them, but rank above FrontPage, because nobody knows anything about them, and they're not made by Microsoft.

FrontPage - Woe is the dignity of the designer using FrontPage... for they will be lumped in with every know-nothing, Geocities-dwelling, amateur creator of a Beloved Pet Memorial site. Few people in the above categories know anything about FP, for it is so low in esteem they are afraid to sully their varying reputation levels by having to admit to having used it... unless said admission is used for good humor effect:

*blush* "Well, I started out on FrontPage... *giggle* Thank GOD I learned my mistakes quickly! Now I hand-code everything in <insert popular Linux text editor here>... it's SO much better than Notepad!"

FrontPage loses MEGA perstige points for being put out by Microsoft.

Woz, I'd like to thank you for your post... while I still don't think FrontPage is the best choice in WYSIWYG design programs ;) (for the reasons listed above by Brett and Marcia), it certainly isn't fair to come off as condemning a person for their choice in software.