Marcia - 1:25 pm on Apr 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

>I program for a small design agency who values design above everything, especially SEO. I have said to them exactly what you all say many times before, but they don't listen.

OK James, then you're off the hook. :)

But the agency you're working for just hasn't seen it, and it's not only doing their clients a disservice, but they're losing a good opportunity for additional revenue by not bringing in a good local SEO person or sub-contracting to a competent local, and offering an additional service to their clientele.

Directories are a good thing, if they're good ones and they're operating correctly. Yes, the entries are pre-screened and put in relevant categories, which is why a couple carry some weight with some search engines as valuable links. But the majority of people don't use them; most type in their search terms and take what they find.

>you haven't addressed my main points, i.e., there can only ever be 3 people in the top 3 so most people will be disappointed and the more people use seo, the less effective they will be.

James, the majority of SEO cowboys, who unfortunately are the ones most visible, when they offer their guarantees they're selling snake-oil. It's not even possible to guarantee top 3, IMHO, unless it's being paid for or there are special circumstances - like Google coming up #1 for a search for "Google". It all does depend on how competitive and what the competition is doing. But that's the essence of it - it's a competition, and (hopefully) the best optimized will be in the top 3, unless those are being paid for, as in PPC or paid listings. Some search engines mask that some are paid and the more ethical ones don't (like Google).

So what it amounts to is that it's a very competitive endeavor, and ethical people or companies should avoid making false promises and be aware of their own limitations, if there are any. IMO the only sensible thing is to take a balanced, realistic view of it, since aside from PPC nothing's come along that does better in terms of return on investment.

It also happens to be entirely possible to design dynamite sites that are also search engine friendly. There are even some HTML sites with Flash presentations imbedded capable of getting excellent rankings without sacrificing design impact. It just takes the high end designers balancing out their skill-sets or calling in others to provide the services their clients need to effectively market their sites.