vincevincevince - 3:39 am on Jun 27, 2006 (gmt 0) Of course - if you are asking for something specific and have been able to describe what you want then there is no need to ask for your budget. Treat your web-designer like a professional just as you expect them to treat you as a professional.
An absolutely first-class thread. At the heart of it is the fact that a web-designer is a professional providing a service and not a vendor selling website designs.
If you can produce something that's limited in scope, but will still move your client from here to there, then you may have found a middle way to please them while not reducing your rates.
If you do this, you must be absolutely clear what they are not getting. Give them a full itemised quote for what you think they need/want. If they reject it then tell them that you are sorry but the complexity of the many requirements they have is what determines the price, but if they want less then they can get a lower quote. Clients are willing to do a lot to cut a quote, for example:
In general this is about them increasing their management workload in order to reduce the programming and development upfront costs. The concept will certainly not be new to any experienced business owner and they will not need telling that features can be added at a future date when they do have the budget to support it.
A customer is calling you at 10PM to ask about something. -> Next time he will call you at sunday, 2 AM.
Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. More than that, even replying to email out-of-hours spawns expectations that you will always do so. In this case it's probably not the client at fault as you are the one who created the expectation of out-of-hours service when the client contacted you and got a reply. He may have only wanted to leave a message on your machine so you'd pick it up in the morning. I have a cheap timer from IKEA which turns off the power on the phone system out-of-hours.
If you fulfill these (for free) with a smile - be prepared for more favours coming up. Much more.
Bear in mind the role that the client is playing. If the client is the end user then you must be careful about this. If the client is a middle-man and he is outsourcing or subcontracting to you then minor changes are to be expected, within reason, due to the chinese-whisper effect.
A quote is not a negotiation. It's a statement of what I believe it will cost for the project in question.
That is absolutely true. I'm not buying beans from bow and selling them in luton with a 50% markup. My quote isn't profiteering, it's the price for a complex professional service. Unless you have a tiny project or you are a web-professional who knows and can document precisely and exactly what you want then you are probably going to have to pay for extras, even with the initial quote.
I've never heard a Romanian complain about too many requests from the client.
I'm not quite sure what the point woop01 is trying to make here is. I'm sure that a Romanian designer or programmer has exactly the same problems with clients as any other designer or programmer.
believe that work usually going for $30-$80 hr. can be done for $5-$10 hr. without thowing a monkeywrench into the economy
Not sure about that. Most of this work is 'bottom-feeding' activity and serves both to reduce the entry barrier to being a webmaster (i.e. moving more clients to the level at which they are willing to pay $30-$80 hr.) and to off-load thousands of potential nightmare clients from approaching you for a quote!
When a customer communicates "I need your best price", this is called "negotiation".
No, that is called stupidity. The difference between a great site and an okay site is virtually impossible to write in a contract. If you want the great site then don't squeese me to to cut out the only thing which isn't specified in the contract - flair and imagination.
quote for a job fully completed without specifying the deliverables and exact work to be completed
Dangerous but workable strategy. It's important that the number of drafts and revisions is clearly specified. i.e. one draft, customer feedback within three days, one revision, customer feedback within three days, final version end of story.
1 - If I did not try to buy something at the best realistic and responsible price, I am doing myself or my company a disservice.
That's a foolish way to look at it. You find the best price by getting multiple quotes, not by asking for quotes to be reduced (a.k.a. asking for corners to be cut). The cost of lost business from the poor site and the additional costs for fixing poor work is going to be more than the pittance you saved.
2 - If you can't do it in the time from I'm looking for, just say so. Is that so hard?
Nobody here has suggested overrunning deadlines, but there is something seriously wrong if a client always seems to have urgent work!
the real world of customer vendor relations.
I am not a vendor. Perhaps that is where you are going wrong. I do not vend products, I sell a professional service. Save your customer vendor relations techniques to use buying fish at the market.
"What is your budget?"
I'd like to know a better response to the statement "I want a really nice website to show my company in a good light". Websites run from $50 templates to $50,000+ interactive developments. I cannot think of a better way of finding the right ball-park than asking the budget.
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Of course - if you are asking for something specific and have been able to describe what you want then there is no need to ask for your budget. Treat your web-designer like a professional just as you expect them to treat you as a professional.