Brett_Tabke - 8:56 pm on May 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

> most basic SEO essential - a Google listing.

No I don't think they failed at a listing - they were quite good at that. They were listed fine for a couple years. What they failed at, was something more difficult to succeed at - a business relationship with Google that could weather some storms. There is a major difference between the following:

a) make money off Google by getting rankings.
b) make money off Google listings by getting clients well ranked.
c) make money WITH Google by getting clients well indexed.

If you are going to be a big seo player, you have to come into compliance with the se's guidelines and live and breathe C above.