I tried both. The first one broke my main background color on the page this (code) was imbedding into. I tried some different settings but no luck. I am sure there must be a way.
However, The second one is working great (i think) in FF and IE.
Now I have 2 templates to learn from and play with, this is a great starting point for me to learn more about html and css.
Thanks again, I really appreciate the help. off to look for the "donate" button.
edit- message to mods/admin, you should have a "donate" button at the end of the posts to catch the happy people such as myself right away.