MultiMan - 1:50 pm on Feb 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

NickCoons,

I am glad to stand corrected when appropriate. If Moz is not a company, but a group, then I am glad to concede my mistake on that. My point of the G$-association problem is not diminished by the semantics of my mistaken entity-description there, though. Whether a company or group, any entity that associates itself with the $G brand is thinking short-term and foolish.

If FF adding G$ was only a matter of "adding 100s" of SE capababilities, that would be different. But when the G$ association is "big news" at WebmasterWorld, and G$'s hiring of an FF dev is "big news," then we're talking more than a mere addition among 100s. If such "news" is important enough to be treated as "big news" and all the cult-worship hoopla that followed it, then more is definitely going on.

As such, the fact of it being made out to be "big news," and all the subsequent cult-worship and hoopla about it, make it clear that this association between G$ and FF is intended to be considered as "big."

That's where the problem lies. If it is that "big," then FF (Moz) has chosen to associate itself with a brand that can "do only evil." Associating with evil at that level of "big news" makes the one associating evil too. (Placing a clean hand in the filthy mud does not make the mud clean -- it only makes the hand filthy too.)

That brings us to your humorous point here, which I did appreciate.

There is a difference between the associating between FF and G$ vs. the fact that GoogleGuy and AdWordsAdvisor also post here at WebmasterWorld.

WebmasterWorld is supposed to be a forum where news, information, and even feedback is exchanged. Although I have at times suspected that G$ may have some power over Brett in control of WebmasterWorld, I have also seen other SE employees here too, e.g. Y!'s Tim and M$'s msndude.

Because they all post here and so do I, all of us in such an open forum, that obviously does not make me "in association" with them.

Frankly, it is precisely because they are here that I make my posts. My posts on SE issues are trying to communicate back to applicable SE's the necessary feedback that any non-evil company would recognize they want. I do not expect everything I say to always be executed or implemented, of course. I am simply making feedback to educate the SEs about the consequences of their decisions and what they might do to make positive corrections or adjustments.

The problem about G$, though, is that they see all the impacts (from feedback such as from myself and others) which they have done to so many honest webmasters and developers, yet G$ continues to "do only evil" at every decision they make, no matter what it is. They currently refuse to listen to such feedback or to ever correct their evils to honest people. That only demonstraes the increased level of their current evil, which also shows that the bigger they become, the more and more evil they will become.

Now, G$ also has an additional and larger-picture form of feedback, adding to all the individual feedback comments in my posts. That is, in the larger picture, they can also see that they now have an internet professional who is adamantly selling against them at every opportunity -- telling everybody at every opportunity all the evil decisions G$ makes. Not only is that occuring here, but they will also realize that that is happening with others "in the real world" too, outside of WebmasterWorld. Not only do I tell people here these issues about the G$ evil, but I also do so at every opportunity with all my real-world customers, acquaintences, friends, and family.

The fact is, I used to be a very adamant supporter of G$ back when they treated webmasters honestly and had useful honest SERPs. It is actually my intent that they would return -- although maybe they have gone so far into their true evil these days that there might not be any hope for them. But I am hopeful person for anyone's self-corrected, repentant redemption. Yet, even if they do not, other SEs can also learn from the feedback of my posts in order to be better compete and maybe help destory the G$ evil.

So, not only are my posts to educate others about the evil of G$ currently, and not only are they providing feedback to G$ (and as feedback for other SEs here to learn as well), but my posts are also done with the hope that maybe one day G$ might change the error of their now evil ways, and return to who they used to be.

That clarification then brings us back to FF.

Just as I am providing feedback to G$ with my posts, I am doing the same with FF.

FF could very well be excellent. But when it comes to marketing, one has to be careful with with your own brand. Smart long-term thinkers know this. Brand maintenence is especially important with regard to trust in the marketplace. It is a no-brainer that you never associate your brand with a brand that cannot be trusted.

Just as most smart business people would not want their own brand associated with the brand of Enron as run by its former corrupt leaders, the same is true for an entity like Moz associating their FF brand with the evil brand of G$.

So, just as I have hope that the feedback I am giving with my posts will educate G$ to stop its evil and errors and return to being a legitimate SE again, in that same way, my posts about FF seek to educate anyone who might be close to Moz to learn as well.

Indeed, I would be ecstatic to see both G$ and FF be as perfect as they could be! But if FF associates with the untrustworthy and evil G$, then I cannot and do not trust the FF brand either. (FF sticking their clean hand into the filthy mud of G$ makes their hand filthy too.)

And through it all, anyone and everyone else is being informed by my posts here of the current problems with both.

As such, regardless of one's opinions of any or all of my posts either way, I am providing quite a direct contribution and service to WebmasterWorld and all involved here. And that's all I am trying to do. :)