alt131 - 11:38 pm on Nov 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

@ ergophobe - I wonder if this is just a sneak preview of "section of content"/"HTML5 <section> element" confusion we will "enjoy" in the future.

I appreciate users of AT will still have access to the headers, but it remains that if the "sections" are html <section> elements then they need headers, so it is mis-using the element to have headers that do not display. Of course it is different if the sections are actually you "blocks" of content rather than html <sections> elements.

So I don't see it as a binary choice between doing it half-ass and doing it right, but a ternary choice

I don't agree with your conclusion - but I do agree your point is valid. And you gave me my new word for the day ;)

this to me is a core issue that has cropped up and has been fixed because of the attention to accessibility rather than SEO or design..

Using clip as a means to hide content rather than display to avoid the user agent rendering issues only works if clip doesn't create a whole set of new issues. I looked at clip for a visual design outcome a few years ago, but implementation was so poor it wasn't usable. Based on the articles, testing doesn't seem that robust, including not yet testing all AT's. Seems to me this clip can't be touted as an accessibility-driven accessible solution until testing shows it is accessible, and doesn't create other problems.

the power behind the "hiding" is as important for SEO as it for navigation/access - at least I think so

Me too. Although I wish they weren't frequently constructed as being in opposition, and given priority in that order. But I do think the argument that this is a way of making up for ignorance/knowledge shortcomings has merit - and add on laziness, and the "it doesn't affect me personally, so I won't bother" brigade as well.

But clip is cool, I had so much a fun when trialling it. I've never liked display:none because of the reflow issues, so clip would be an improvement - if robust testing shows it doesn't create other issues.

The real issue for me, is that the most logical property really is visibility. I had wondered if the html5 draft would revise hidden so an empty element took up no space in the layout, or extend collapse to all elements. It hasn't, which seems a missed opportunity.