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Windows Phone 7 - Released To Manufacturing
bill




msg:4195440
 6:53 am on Sep 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

Windows Phone 7 - Released To Manufacturing [windowsteamblog.com]

Today is the day that the Windows Phone team has been driving towards, and we're very excited to say that we've reached the biggest milestone for our internal team - the release to manufacturing (RTM) of Windows Phone 7! While the final integration of Windows Phone 7 with our partners' hardware, software, and networks is underway, the work of our internal engineering team is largely complete.

Windows Phone 7 is the most thoroughly tested mobile platform Microsoft has ever released. We had nearly ten thousand devices running automated tests daily, over a half million hours of active self-hosting use, over three and a half million hours of stress test passes, and eight and a half million hours of fully automated test passes. We've had thousands of independent software vendors and early adopters testing our software and giving us great feedback. We are ready.

I'm sure that many will criticize the new Windows Phone 7 without ever having laid eyes on it...just because it's from MS. I'd personally like to see it on some hardware and try it out first.

 

johnnie




msg:4195484
 9:29 am on Sep 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

From what I've seen on Engadget and the likes, WP7 looks revolutionary. The smartphone redefined. Awesome stuff.

ByronM




msg:4195565
 1:52 pm on Sep 2, 2010 (gmt 0)

From what I've seen on Engadget and the likes, WP7 looks revolutionary. The smartphone redefined. Awesome stuff.


From the developer perspective its a dream come true. A little hard at times to prescribe to the tile interface and a little limited in that regard for the first release however the tools we have to develop for this ecosystem make developing for iPhone and Android feel like self inflicted torture in comparison.

seo99




msg:4195928
 5:57 am on Sep 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

iphone killer.

Sierra_Dad




msg:4196260
 8:36 pm on Sep 3, 2010 (gmt 0)

I can't say I've developed for Windows Phone yet, but it has some very promising things for developers.

In some ways, Microsoft has emulated the iPhone more closely than Android, or any of its previous Windows Mobile Products.
-Limited multitasking
-Standardized hardware.
-Control of app distribution
-They will seek to vet and approve apps.

Microsoft has shown a history of being successful in a market without being first to innovate in it. Ever heard of WordPerfect?

Based on what I've learned, here's some positive things for developers.
-Developing graphic apps using XNA. I haven'd done much
mobile graphics programming, but in Android, developers are in the stone age by comparison.
-XNA code can run on the phones, your PC, or the XBox, and the tools help you do this.
- The Windows MarketPlace includes support for various licensing models, including timed trial, lite and premium licenses - maybe even subscriptions. The high school interns working on the Android Market probably won't get to that this century.
- Microsoft is promising objective criteria and clear and prompt feedback when apps are reviewed for market. How well that works will remain to be seen.

Google doesn't really care about Android developers making money; they'd rather have a bunch of free apps so that they can make the money.

While an open marketplace is often praised, it really isn't a benefit to developers nor users to have the sheer amount of spam that is in the Android Market. Nor is it a benefit that blatant trademark violaters prosper until someone complains.

graeme_p




msg:4197099
 10:51 am on Sep 6, 2010 (gmt 0)

Microsoft has shown a history of being successful in a market without being first to innovate in it.


Conversely, MS is not always successful, especially in mobile devices. Ever heard of Zune or Playsforsure?

Google doesn't really care about Android developers making money; they'd rather have a bunch of free apps so that they can make the money.


Consumers wall also like free apps.

Leonard0




msg:4197149
 1:23 pm on Sep 6, 2010 (gmt 0)

"Windows Phone 7" - I can't believe that they will actually call it that.
Not only is it a boring name, it's totally misleading.
What happened to the previous 6 versions of the phone?
Or is it just a port of Windows 7 to a phone?
Maybe they are keeping the actual name secret until the release.

mack




msg:4197158
 1:53 pm on Sep 6, 2010 (gmt 0)

Well there was Windows Mobile 6.

I have always thought Windows Mobile was one step ahead of the rest when it came to aimng their software at business users. iPhone and Android are clearly designed with the consumer in mind. With Windows Mobile you have Mobile Office. True there are Office applications available for other platforms, but none have so far came close to Mobile Office.

Mack.

Harry




msg:4197317
 10:29 pm on Sep 6, 2010 (gmt 0)

Microsoft is starting at the starting line like any other new platform. Sure they have money to spend, but the platform is a big risk for developers.

Having multiple distribution and sales models for apps doesn't change the fact that anything done on WP7 must be compatible with what's already available in terms of distribution on iOS and Android. Just because I can make an app with limited trial, doesn't mean I'll really be able to do so, when said app also has to be distributed in a similar fashion on other mobile platforms. Not sure if you guys see where I'm going, but both Microsoft and Apple have a history of starting new standards that run counter to what the rest of the industry is doing and making it more difficult to develop for.

I have seriously looked at WP7 but I'm still not convinced that a port to this platform is a safe bet. While the interface is unique - kudos to Microsoft to have innovated and brought a fresh idea to market, the way Palm did, the UI is much too complicated for the average person. Grouping similar activities into sections instead of a specific task oriented method, the way iOS does now is not intuitive at all. The UI, while beautiful is way to onerous and complex for a business user or a mobile user on the go that has little time to figure out things. One should not have to think too much when using a smartphone which is intended to be used in quick sessions.

Microsoft has not done sufficient diligent work to attract developers, like me. The registration process and fees are counterproductive and shows that the company still doesn't understand the industry it's playing in. When you're the last guy, you can't ask people to pay dearly for something unproven. By doing this Microsoft targets only the usual Microsoft crowd of developers and not the scruffy small shops that have popped out all over and created all those apps that have made iOS and Android sexy. These irregular outfits are the one that make app ecosystems possible. Not the usual Microsoft certified bunch that's used to playing in its "elitist" and protected playground.

Microsoft thinks it doesn't have to attract the small scruffy app publishers that turn out a project in a few months with barebone resources. They're approach is too bureaucratic - more so than Apple which has allowed independents devs to thrive. Too many procedures, too much tech to adhere to.

The things missing from WP7 from the launch are inexcusable. Again, Microsoft thinks it's got time on its side and is in 2008 not 2010. While Microsoft has done one better than Blackberry with WP7 versus BB6, it's still not there in terms of real usability and features innovation as Android, iOS and Palm webOS. It's product is not mature enough in an industry dominated by far more advanced mobile OSes.

Microsoft is banking everything on gaming, by linking the Xbox ecosystem to WP7. Unfortunately, it's not doing so in its first release and will again play catch up on something it should never have lost ground in the first place. iOS has shown that gaming can be big directly on the mobile ecosystem and that linking it to another structure or treating mobile as a junior or lite playground is a big mistake.

Microsoft is not humble in their current endeavour. They poured similar amount of money and resources for the Kin and pulled the plug less than a month after. As an app dev, can I trust Microsoft to stay the course and continue to promote this platform, while it has, less than six months ago killed several major projects which were expected to define the company in the future? Where is the Courier? What about the Kin? Will Microsoft get cold feet and fire all of the WP7 team when they get less than stellar results after a few months? Will the manufacturers and launch partners who most of them are still working on Android keep their enthusiasm when they see their Android device making so much more revenue?

As an app dev, I do not trust Microsoft on this one and they have done little to woo me. Information has been sketchy and I'm not even sure if WP7 is a GSM toy only or if it will also available for CDMA devices. I don't know much about the devices being offered by various manufacturers. I didn't even get my free phone in the mail to encourage me to develop for WP7.

Windows Phone 7 is a big risk and I'm not sure I want to be a part of it.

ByronM




msg:4198049
 10:23 pm on Sep 7, 2010 (gmt 0)

Having multiple distribution and sales models for apps doesn't change the fact that anything done on WP7 must be compatible with what's already available in terms of distribution on iOS and Android. Just because I can make an app with limited trial, doesn't mean I'll really be able to do so, when said app also has to be distributed in a similar fashion on other mobile platforms. Not sure if you guys see where I'm going, but both Microsoft and Apple have a history of starting new standards that run counter to what the rest of the industry is doing and making it more difficult to develop for.


Microsoft has already had a couple of years of this technology running on XNA/Xbox Live. It was slow to take off, but its obviously making some people money since the market is growing growing growing. MS is merely extending this market to an additional platform using the same tool set. Pure genius move.

Microsoft has not done sufficient diligent work to attract developers, like me. The registration process and fees are counterproductive and shows that the company still doesn't understand the industry it's playing in. When you're the last guy, you can't ask people to pay dearly for something unproven. By doing this Microsoft targets only the usual Microsoft crowd of developers and not the scruffy small shops that have popped out all over and created all those apps that have made iOS and Android sexy. These irregular outfits are the one that make app ecosystems possible. Not the usual Microsoft certified bunch that's used to playing in its "elitist" and protected playground.


I'm not sure why you found it hard. MS was handing out developer phones like candy and has a process for acquiring unlocked phones. With Dell, Samsung, HTC and others launching phones it won't exactly be as limited as iPhone has been and yet, it will be more standard than Android could ever be.

The things missing from WP7 from the launch are inexcusable. Again, Microsoft thinks it's got time on its side and is in 2008 not 2010. While Microsoft has done one better than Blackberry with WP7 versus BB6, it's still not there in terms of real usability and features innovation as Android, iOS and Palm webOS. It's product is not mature enough in an industry dominated by far more advanced mobile OSes.


What exactly is missing? MS office is there, exchange is there, web browsing is there, zune & zune.net is there, Full integration with facebook is there, Xbox live is there - the developer tool set is already head and shoulders above all the competition. I can't for the life of me think of anything that is missing that will be a show stopper. Cut & Paste maybe.. but i never use that on my wife's iphone and if it is in such high demand i'd imagine it would be pretty quick to market in a patch.

Microsoft is not humble in their current endeavour. They poured similar amount of money and resources for the Kin and pulled the plug less than a month after. As an app dev, can I trust Microsoft to stay the course and continue to promote this platform, while it has, less than six months ago killed several major projects which were expected to define the company in the future? Where is the Courier? What about the Kin?


Kin was the tail end of a dead end project that really had no future. The money spent in kin was hardly anywhere near the investment in WP7 but mostly acquisition of a cloud based phone platforms.

Courier? Seriously? That project was never a consumer project and if you want to see what MS does beyond just the courier check out MS research :)

People though vista was the end, Windows 7 broke that. People thought windows phone 6.5 was the end, Windows 7 can break that.

MS is betting on the living room and the phone is a huge part of that. They won't walk away so easily from a core platform - which kin never was and wp7 will be.

graeme_p




msg:4198162
 4:43 am on Sep 8, 2010 (gmt 0)

MS office is there, exchange is there, web browsing is there, zune & zune.net is there, Full integration with facebook is there, Xbox live is there


No USP there either, except maybe XBox for gamers.


Cut & Paste maybe


Copy everything from Apple - even the shortcomings!

seo99




msg:4198460
 11:41 am on Sep 8, 2010 (gmt 0)

@graeme_p

1. Metro UI
2. Development Tools (VS2010, Blend, XNA, Silverlight)
3. Xbox Games
4. Zune
5. Tellme - deep voice integration
6. Office 2010
7. Sharepoint
8. Inbuilt Skydrive
... ... .. many more to come..

Android is a copy of Apple, not WP.

Harry




msg:4200847
 6:38 pm on Sep 12, 2010 (gmt 0)

@ByronM, I don't know if you work for Microsoft, but if you do, you have the wrong attitude while addressing the concerns of a genuine developer. It's just more of that smug attitude that makes me doubt Microsoft Windows 7 will be a relevant platform to develop for and that Microsoft won't try to screw small devs like me, like they used to.

1-I don't care about XNA/Xbox Live. Coming from Android, iOS and Palm, I don't care about these. I'm not a big shop, so I don't make multimillion dollars games with a team of 60-100 devs and designers.

2-Microsoft should have made entry into their program free or dirt cheap, like Google. That $100 license for only six app is not a good deal. Instead of thinking of how they could support devs, all they cared about was applying game and sales logic to their dev program. So if you pay $100 for six apps, you'll be encouraged to make five other apps after porting or creating from scratch your first apps with WP7. Instead of focusing more on the needs of the devs who needs to make sure his first app is a success, all they care in trying to maximize their sales models with devs.

By the way, I still didn't get any free phone from MS. I'm waiting, but if I don't get one, they won't get any apps from me. MS is untested, they have to make sure I can at least get a free phone from them and not take such a risks on an unproven vaporware - it's vaporware as I can,t buy one yet.

3-Copy paste, multitasking and access to several apis is missing in 1.0 Office is useless without copy and paste. Without muiltitasking, I can't work with a doc and xls files at the same time. Too painful.

I don't care about Zune. Full Facebook integration is a 2009 feature that came with Palm. Not something to tout in 2010. The feature set barely matches that of an 2007 iPhone. I don't really care about XBox. I'm not a gamer.

4-The Kin cost Microsoft 1 billion dollar. It didn't know 1 billion dollar was pocket change. The Kin shows the confusion and inner wars at Microsoft. They fired Allard, the visionary in their team and they still think they can pull off the launch of WP7 without the creative juices of the guys who had vision. Right now all they have left are the code monkeys and plaid shirt middle managers.

The Kin was a big investment for Microsoft and they totally blew it -less than six months ago. If it had been a failure from 10 years ago, one could have brushed it off. But right now, the people responsible for killing the Kin are still making decisions for Microsoft and they still don't seem to get the mobile world.

Dismiss the recent kin failure as much as you want, but it is a a reflection of who Microsoft is today. It's crap like that that scars devs like me. I can,t trust Microsoft to stay the course on a project that's not in its entrenched business space, like Windows and Office.

Make fun of the Courier, but it is exactly the type of project that Microsoft needed to pull. Argue that it wasn't for the public as much as you like - yeah right it wasn't for the public. Microsoft has been toying with tablets for a decade and it took Apple to show them how to do it right - Well they still haven't done anything having killed the project.

@seo99, you don't know a thing about Android. I'm not an Android cheerleader, but I would never make comments like saying Android is a copy of iOS. It is not. Android is for one thing an attempt a smartphone OS, but that's where the similarity with iOS ends. Android has a completely different philosophy and it's not about openness. People make fun of the Android fragmentation and diversity of specs all the time. I do agree that a vertical approach to smartphone OS is better, but Android is becoming a vertical solution for many manufacturers. Instead of mocking Android, Microsoft should learn and pay attention to what's happening there. It's literally the most active scene on the smartphone OS world, except maybe for Palm's webOS.

Sierra_Dad




msg:4202314
 6:10 pm on Sep 15, 2010 (gmt 0)

I don't know how to get a free Windows Phone either.

Granted, I haven't gone to any expensive Microsoft Conferences, but if I had, the phone wouldn't be exactly free, now would it?

MilGal




msg:4204837
 4:03 pm on Sep 21, 2010 (gmt 0)

Well, i'm a proud owner of a windows mobile powered device, and i like the multitasking, and the the ability to install things on my phone, also, i have seen more interesting apps and software for windows mobile than other platform. Certainly iphone and ipad apps are more, but i really dont care. Also the most powerfull smartphone is a windows mobile phone and it has 1GHz processor with 512 RAM and 2 Gb HDD, and expasible memory to 32 Gb or more. So i really dont care about other phones, also i have seen some videos about windows phone 7 and it looks awesome, i'm willing to have one WP7 in my hands.

ByronM




msg:4205246
 12:28 pm on Sep 22, 2010 (gmt 0)

Harry,

Genuine developers would work with microsoft, not bash them at every turn. You have an answer for everything all the meanwhile answering nothing.

I'm a small @ home developer and I managed to get everything i need from MS and then some by participating in the great community they have provided.

The MS program is as cheap and is worth the 100 bucks.

Harry




msg:4205557
 2:25 am on Sep 23, 2010 (gmt 0)

@Byron. I have several apps published but none with Microsoft. Was wondering whether to go or not but still not convinced. Did they ever give you that free phone? I do resent having to pay $100 when they are the last guys in. We're taking a chance with them. Google is $25 and Palm is free. Apple can justify it. Microsoft can't.

@Migal, you sound like one of those Blackberry guys saying how their BB does everything the iPhone can while accepting the mediocrity of their platform. Never used Win 6.5, but darn (based on the reviews I read), It's not something to be proud of.

Sierra_Dad




msg:4206107
 11:16 pm on Sep 23, 2010 (gmt 0)

It's perfectly understandable to resent the $100 registration on principle. However, whether you develop for WP7 is a business decision. If you cannot get enough value for the $100, don't pay it.

I'm a scruffy at home developer too, but I wouldn't spend time on an app that would make less than $100. YMMV.

The hardware for testing is a consideration, true. I never got a free Android phone because I didn't get into it early enough. I've got plenty of Android work right now, but if I did get a free phone, it might tip the scales to me starting earlier and not waiting a few months to see how customers respond and for them to work out more of the initial bugs.

Sure, WP7 is a risk. The risks I see are:
Will enough customers flock to the platform?
Will they be willing to pay for apps?

If the above is true, I think Microsoft's commitment to the platform will stick.

If I do develop for WP7, I'm okay if the $100 fee and paperwork keep other developers away. You know about supply and demand, right?

incrediBILL




msg:4226321
 1:23 am on Nov 4, 2010 (gmt 0)

It's perfectly understandable to resent the $100 registration on principle.


Not really, it's a simple cost of doing business, something you write-off against your income, and keeps a lot of the 'spam' out of the system.

Besides, after the high price of Microsoft's developer tools, what's an extra $100 anyway?

Sierra_Dad




msg:4227635
 11:55 pm on Nov 6, 2010 (gmt 0)

Besides, after the high price of Microsoft's developer tools, what's an extra $100 anyway?


The tools are free to develop for Windows Phone 7, making that registration all the more reasonable.

The tools to develop for Windows Mobile cost upwards of $1000 not too far back.

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