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Mobiles - Why so Little Interest?
nomis5




msg:4037259
 8:58 pm on Dec 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Development of mobile phone websites have been interesting me for the last year or so. I've made a few posts here over that time. Now I have a couple of mobiles (small screen Samsung and a top of the range large screen Nokia) and I also have a .mobi domain with some very basic content.

The .mobi and the purchase of the large screen Nokia were inevitable but hastened by a discussion with my son (20 years) and my partners son (23 years). Both have recently bought upmarket mobiles (I-Phone and a Blackberry Curve). Both have said that they now use their mobiles more than their desktops. And both have said that they "didn't know how managed before their mobile internet access".

So, I'm sold on the idea and will continue posting here on progress. I just don't understand why there is so little interest in mobile web site development. Any idea why?

 

topr8




msg:4037272
 9:13 pm on Dec 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

my personal experience is that as far as i know i have made 1 sale due to a mobile!

i met a customer face to face and i didn't have what they wanted with me, however i said that i had such an item on the website, she went away to have a coffee and came back a few minutes later saying she'd checked on her phone and wanted to pay me cash right now. as far as i know that was it, no one has actually checked out using a mobile phone that i know of.

i guess it depends what your web business is, but for me selling tangible goods, mobile-commerce hasn't happened.

SuzyUK




msg:4037330
 11:04 pm on Dec 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Dear Ed:
From: A Mom:

Any idea why?

Yep, but it's just an opinion ;)

not so very long ago, geeks (like me!) liked the idea of having everything available on one device. BUT I also have a young son, and a messaging system I would like to have a rest from now and again, it's called prioritising.

So while initially it sounds great to be always contactable, in reality it's not so great, no down time, no space, in fact it's in all likelyhood the biggest waste of space.

Look at email, I take it people know how to filter, ignore or indeed the reverse, know when they're being ignored.. with phones it's the novelty, do you really want to be 24/7?

my son is 10, he thinks that having the latest all singing all dancing web enabled phone is cool. I got him a phone that did no more than play music, text or call, he wouldn't even know how to surf the web safely on the PC yet (though I have the blocks in place) let alone me explaining to him how it's different on a phone. he wasn't happy (peer pressure I presume) but he has learned to respect what the phone is for!, god bless he sends us a text no matter where he is or what he's doing (even though I know 'cos us mum's are always in touch too!)

He also won an iPod two years ago, at the time I tried explaining that the iPod was for music and the phone was for important calls.. he ignored the iPod an had me put the music on the phone. I nearly sold the iPod , but instead got him some books he could listen to for change, he liked the stories..

TWO years later (at age 10) he takes the phone with him when he leaves the house or goes on a sleepover (they're not allowed it in their school) and he now uses his iPod for music - all the time 'cos mummy can get it there for him, sometimes with video!

.. point I'm trying to make is I've always been like that, (my OH is worse, he used to switch off his phone to prove he was in "his time" rather than let it take a message or see what # was calling. can't blame as before this you couldn't switch off you home phone!)
More simply put, I'm a full believer in that no device will rule all, nor should it - no device is required by all (specially not the prices they charge for them ;)) .. if you need a camera, buy a camera, if you just need to be prepared, buy a phone/camera, if you want to surf, no doubt you'll have a laptop, if you're into newsfeeds any favourite device will do if you're even aware of how to download them onto your device, if you shop online you'll likely want the stability (rather than the novelty) for the trust factor.. and if you don't yet, you will soon ;) If you want social media, sure some phone are selling you a better package on that orientation or Blackberry are trying to find their niche, or Apple or touch screen.. is it the hardware gimmick or the functionality you need? will your money buy the extras? -

like I said no one product is going to cover all.. and even if they tried, would anyone really want all? (geeks are not allowed to answer that question ;) hehe)

this is the biggest tussle of the technology times, I'm looking forward to seeing which one will win.

golocal




msg:4045428
 12:35 pm on Dec 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

Two weeks ago I updated my cell phone plan.
I had a basic plan - no texting no browsing.

I walked out with a Droid and a full browsing plan.

Of course, the first thing I did was call up my websites and was not happy with they way they functioned on the small screen, so, I began the process of redesigning.

In my opinion and it is my opinion only. I could never see that advantages of cell phone browsing (.mobi) in particular
But Smartphone browsing is not .mobi

Smartphone browsing is internet on a small screen.
I now understand why Google bought AdMob.

This is going to be huge. The Droids were flying out of the door the night I was there.
A week later I went to a Pizza joint that had WiFi. During my 30 minute wait. I pulled out the Droid and surfed the web without their WiFi.

Between IPhone, Droid, Blackberry, etc.
I think the Smart Phone Browsing is going to be huge.
I liken .mobi to smart phone, to be like BetaMax to VHS.

When you are out and about, keep you eyes open for people with smartphones. The opportunities are going to nothing but grow.

nomis5




msg:4045446
 1:27 pm on Dec 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

Good points golocal. I wouldn't get too bogged down though in associating .mobi with small just screen mobiles. Smartphones, and I have the top Nokia one, is just a mobile with a larger screen and maybe a qwerty keyboard.

Like you I have only recently acquired a smartphone and with all the easy screen resizing options, I still find the vast majority of normal websites a pain to use. If I reduce the font size so that I can see the majority of the width of a page, I find I can't read the writing easy enough. I would prefer to see sites specifically designed for smartphones / mobiles so that I can see most /all of the width and still be able to read it.

The other factor that comes into play is the cost of viewing the pages. My plan (UK based) is a fairly typical "unlimited" broadband usage here. But it is by no means unlimited. It is subject to a "fair use" policy of 500mb per month, not that much when today's graphic intensive websites are taken into account. I really don't like the idea of downloading a google analytics page only to find it has just gobbled up 1 and a half mb of my allowance. I'd keep away from sites like that. Basically, if a site has been designed specifically for mobiles / smartphones then it's likely to use up less of my allowance.

I agree fully that the use of smartphones will increase significantly very, very quickly. I see this with the younger generation I know. I do wonder though if your average "information type" website can monetise this usage for the average webmaster. Sure Google can monetise it with queries such as "nearest pizza house / police station/ petrol station etc". But can the average widget information site owner monetise the increase in use?

I've created a .mobi equivalent of one of my sites because I believe users may search for the information it provides when they are in a supermarket / shop. But will they ever click on an ad to provide me with some form of income from that site?

golocal




msg:4045491
 2:44 pm on Dec 18, 2009 (gmt 0)

You may be right, but what I am saying is we have to find a way because the smart phone browser is going to be growing and growing and we need a way to grow with it. Agree about the monetizing. I don't like the way the current Google Ads appear. Perhaps by acquiring ADMob they will become more attractive. (smaller)

It also reminds me of the early 90's. Djvu all over again. Gotta be some great opportunities here.

To do nothing would be like the IBM executives talking to Bill Gates. Spoken like the movie High Sierra.

Computers Computers! We don't need no stinking computers. We have adding machines.

Harry




msg:4048064
 3:36 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

Mobile surfing is starting to pick up, but I find most developers just don't get it yet.

KenB




msg:4048070
 4:10 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

I worked hard to optimize my websites for mobile browsers down to providing a specific stylesheets for them, but then iPhone and other smart phones came along and totally ignored my carefully designed CSS files and grabbed the standard ones anyways. My figuring is I'll continue to try and streamline my sites as possible so that they load quickly regardless of device, but I'm not going to go to the trouble of creating special style sheets for hand helds if they aren't going to use them anyways. Creating a totally separate version of my websites just for hand helds would be too much of a PITA, especially when there is already a mechanism in place within HTML/CSS specifications for providing special formatting instructions for these devices.

DanceParty




msg:4048104
 5:54 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

i was going to write a long post explaining why what and where but came to one simple answer.

open source.

now that we have android, mobile web and most importantly native apps will take off. gps location is also a big deal that fuels mobile adoption. before iphone/android there were a bunch of crappy dumb phones running a crappy closed system, and the cost for developer account was in thousands of dollars.

anand84




msg:4048124
 6:29 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

I think even as mobile websites were starting to pick up, the scenario has changed and now it is mobile apps. There are mobile app developers making $1 million plus in profits of late.

So, if you have a website and are wondering if you should do a mobile site, probably developing a related app might be better..

incrediBILL




msg:4048129
 6:45 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

now that we have android, mobile web and most importantly native apps will take off. gps location is also a big deal that fuels mobile adoption. before iphone/android there were a bunch of crappy dumb phones running a crappy closed system, and the cost for developer account was in thousands of dollars.

Bingo.

Open source, easy to develop and test on your own phone, I have an HTC Hero, it rocks!

no device will rule all, nor should it

They will become specialized but the smart phones basically have the power of a desktop from several years past in your pocket.

Now they have screen projectors and bluetooth virtual laser keyboards so you can pull a phone and something the size of a cigarette lighting out of your pocket and basically have the equivalent of a netbook available to use that fits in the size of your pocket.

I use my Android for music, gps, streaming radio and video, email, some web site admin, online banking and I even have an SSH terminal so I can log into to my servers when they crash from wherever I'm standing.

Out shopping the barcode scanner taps into comparative pricing and product reviews, step outside and Layar overlaps Google Maps search results with real-time GPS on a virtual grid, or at night Google Sky gives you a GPS-based handheld planetarium and you aim the phone at a star and it shows you what it is.

It almost does everything I need when I'm away from my desk, real close!

HOWEVER...

Back to the OP topic, why so few smart phone enabled sites?

You really don't need a .mobi site to make a site work well for mobile because personally I wouldn't waste time on the older obsolete phones that needed specialized screens for their tiny limited browsers.

I'd put my time and energy into sites that work well on iPhone, Android and Blackberry which can virtually view anything already. Just make alternate pages that are easier to navigate for these devices.

Also, why aren't their more QR codes on web pages so the phone can scan URLs off the screen?

Well, Firefox has mobile barcoder add-ons that create pop-up QR codes to allow you to easily transfer URLs to mobile.

Slightly off topic, don't forget to integrate the real world with your mobile phone such as putting QR codes on business cards or letter head that contain your entire contact information.

Harry




msg:4048136
 7:14 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

The app model for Websites is temporary and not something users ultimately view as value added. It will work for a few years, but will die as more crap crowds the place and users feel cheated. The app model, ultimately is not user friendly because it traps users into one proprietary space. The mobile site model is more universal but of course for the time being, hard to monetize...

smallcompany




msg:4048153
 7:59 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

Who buys stuff "through" the phone? I can't imagine myself doing it. Too small for research and decision making.

DanceParty




msg:4048163
 8:27 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

The app model for Websites is temporary and not something users ultimately view as value added. It will work for a few years, but will die as more crap crowds the place and users feel cheated. The app model, ultimately is not user friendly because it traps users into one proprietary space. The mobile site model is more universal but of course for the time being, hard to monetize...

I disagree. I'd give that model 10 years, at least. Two fundamental differences between native app and mobile websites are:

1. Speed. Right now, native apps beat the hell out website apps in connection and response time. Its just way, way faster to interact with server in an app rather then sending/requesting data trough a mobile browser. Processing speed is also faster. This applies to wifi/3g/edge whatever connection speeds.

2. Functionality. Mobile sites will never be able to use core functionality of the phone. Ever. For security reasons. The proximity sensors, gps sensors, accelerometer and numerous other sensor apis is what sets an app apart from a website.

vincevincevince




msg:4048204
 10:02 am on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

The general opinion I hear is that specific support for mobile devices is only a short term problem. Within a year all new devices will deal with webpages as well as the average desktop or laptop browser; and so there is no need to think too much about supporting them.

The iPhone is a great example: provided you are not relying on flash (already a development golden rule), are cross-browser compatible (already a development golden rule) and do not rely on mouseOver/mouseOut events (already an accessibility golden rule) then your site works just fine; even small things can be very quickly zoomed by the user.

celerityfm




msg:4048242
 12:01 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

You really don't need a .mobi site to make a site work well for mobile because personally I wouldn't waste time on the older obsolete phones that needed specialized screens for their tiny limited browsers.

You probably already know this but, as they say, it depends on your market - some parts of the world have a healthy ecosystem of WAP browser-enabled phones with lots of people using that as their sole means of net access, so a WML based site is a must if you want to provide content to the masses in those cases.

That aside, with the iPhone now the most popular handset in the US [arstechnica.com] - that's right, most popular handset, not smartphone(!) - I totally agree. One of the MAJOR selling points of the iPhone, that we take for granted now, was that it had a web browser that did what no other phone had gotten quite right yet: providing a meaningful mobile web experience on websites that were originally built for a desktop browser.

Since then it's become a virtual standard for smartphones to have this capability. From this (back to the OP) interest in what people would call traditional mobile web development (WML, etc) has dwindled. HOWEVER it's a mistake to think that one can just make a website however they would normally and then walk away thinking you're set for mobile browsers. Flash support, variations in video playback capabilities and other important differences mean there is a new style of mobile web development out there (which is really a riff on current, modern desktop web development) - that of graceful degradation for mobile (not sure if I'm using the right words there, but you get the point :) )

SO. I bet there IS interest out there on that last point. So here's a few tips off the top of my head before I've had my coffee: Make sure your FLASH content has alternative content (goes without saying for SEO), but realize now that mobile users are going to actually SEE this content, so make it snappy. Flash embedded videos won't be playable either, so provide embedded videos as alternative content. So, forum denizens, can you add to my list of tips for modern mobile web development?

Lastly, to the point of mobile commerce, it's coming. Right now a mobile presence is generally most important for being part of the research effort that is performed leading up to purchase (which may be done in person, by computer or by phone). Not being considered during the research effort because you are not accessible from a mobile device means you could lose out on the sale that will eventually occur. So it's important now but you're not going to see alot of transactions from mobiles- just alot of transactions resulting FROM mobile research after the fact on separate devices (anyone want to talk about good ways to track that?).

Eventually, soon, we will get to the point where mobile commerce takes over traditional ecommerce and this discussion will be moot. How soon? Well be sure to review Morgan Stanley's 2009 Economy and Internet Trends [morganstanley.com] research presentation - starting on about slide 28. BTW this presentation is also helpful for converting mobile naysayers- it's tough to walk away from that presentation not feeling that mobile is well on it's way to taking over. It's just a matter of time.

maximillianos




msg:4048254
 12:40 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

We design our sites to work well enough in both worlds. Phones are getting better and better at browsing regular sites just fine. Mobi development is useful, but no longer required to present your site to mobile searchers.

James_WV




msg:4048287
 1:56 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

Who buys stuff "through" the phone? I can't imagine myself doing it. Too small for research and decision making.

Loads of people buy thorugh their phones - e.g. Ebay sold $400million throug their iphone app in the last year. The highest value purchase was a lamborghini at $300,000 - through a mobile app!

The $400million is a small % of Ebay's sales ($59.7 billion last year), but that's significant for a first year of any new channel.

I think mobile's just going to keep getting bigger - although I do think some degree of customisation will be required - i.e. booking forms can look very long on a mobile

Harry




msg:4048307
 2:27 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

@DanceParty - The functions you discuss for the app model are just that - functions. Most regular Web site that present information to their users do not need proximity sensors, gps, or accelerometer. And if your smartphone is any good, I will use the accelerometer with it's browser anyway.

I say you're confusing tools and technology for user needs and wants. What people want is what ultimately decides what app they use and if the Web site as an app model is here to stay. I say it is not. That's not what people want. People want REAL apps, not Web sites repackaged as apps. However the apps model is easier to repackage and monetize right now, but this will change.

@vincevincevince - support for mobile site can be temporary, but users using smartphones - even those with Webkit still find it easier to use mobile versions of sites when they are available. Relying on technology to catch up as and avoid fixing your site for mobile users is a mistake. Don't rely on smartphones to get it eventually. Make sure your users can visit your site today with a mobile sensitive site that works for them now.

Even when using the latest smartphone with full Internet access, most Web sites - including this one are a pain to navigate through. It's not a pleasant experience. That's why when mobile versions are available, most knowledgeable users choose them.

weeks




msg:4048310
 2:29 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

KenB, Vince and MaxiMillianos have it nailed:
I worked hard to optimize my websites for mobile browsers down to providing a specific stylesheets for them, but then iPhone and other smart phones came along and totally ignored my carefully designed CSS files and grabbed the standard ones anyways.

The developers I know say they are more or less thinking of it in terms of browsers. Mobile is soon (this year or next) going to include the ebook-type devices as well.

Smart business people look at where they want to be five years from now, but, sheeee, in our field it's expensive and misleading to look too far down the road. Unless you have hundreds of thousands of dollars to play with and nothing else to think about...

commanderW




msg:4048360
 3:47 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

Well, I spent some time on the on the back of the bus in San Francisco recently. I looked around and every single person was using either a handheld or an mp3 player. One morning, I was reading a book. 9 other people were using a handheld, and 1 was listening to music. These were people of all ages sexes and nationalities, by the way. Incredible. I really don't understand what everyone is doing.

There is definitely an emerging market. Shopping with smartphones will be huge. This is a time for web designers to use their imagination. This is the time when the field is wide open. We can make up our own uses and needs. Take incrediBILL above

...at night Google Sky gives you a GPS-based handheld planetarium and you aim the phone at a star and it shows you what it is.

I didn't know such a capability existed. But now that I do, I really really need a smart phone :)

On the down-side, I have designed all my sites so they fit on even the oldest web enabled handsets. I did this for a client who wanted their entire stock-list online. It looked pretty good too. I thought it looked really great in fact. But the client was after "look and feel" in a traditional sort of way, and made me rewrite everything so it looked real pretty but is no longer scrollable on older handhelds :( Clients who imagine that a pretty picture to entice and seduce potential customers is the apex of web marketing are often going to be the biggest obstruction to the mobile web, I think.

incrediBILL




msg:4048376
 4:16 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

soon, we will get to the point where mobile commerce takes over traditional ecommerce and this discussion will be moot.

I think you'll see even more bizarre changes such as the mobile phone actually being used *AS* your credit card.

Someone already has apps that store all your shopping reward cards in the phone and it displays the rewards card barcode for the store to scan right on the phone screen. Now you don't need a pocket or keychain full of those cards anymore.

As a matter of fact, using your phone as a credit card would be safer because the digital credit card downloaded in the phone could be locked to a single device so if someone cloned my digital credit card it would fail to validate on other mobile devices.

No wallets full of plastic for real-world shopping and the digital CC would just upload to any ecommerce site, easy for both worlds.

Don't know if Visa/MC has figured out how cool this technology would be, but I can hardly wait until they do!

golocal




msg:4048379
 4:22 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

Ok how about this. Until I actually got a smart phone, I realized that I didn't get it either. I relied on opinions from others that it was a passing fad, no one would purchase form their phone etc.
Smart Phone browsing is not cell phone dot mobi.
Once I started using the smart phone browser, I realized that I have some work to do on my existing website so it is more appealing to smart phone visitors.
Then I started with the apps.
The question for this forum is not so much about apps but how to make apps that open up your website to this new emerging market.
In other words, an app that downloads to the droid or Iphone etc and then simply opens up the small screen version of your web in the browser.
The app is just another way of marketing your site.
I just really think that as webmasters or what ever we call our selves these days, we will fall into a rut similar to the first days of the www.
Arguments about size of pages because of load time on a 14k modem. Those days are gone with todays speeds.
Is there still people that dial in with a 14k modem, probably, but it is now their problem not ours.
Don't fall get trapped in a paradigm, I really think the smartphone opens up tremendous opportunities for all of us.
We just have to be willing to adapt to something we are not used to.

J_RaD




msg:4048522
 7:12 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)


I really don't understand what everyone is doing.

chatting, twitter, texting, facebook, youtube...any other online time sucking application they've got addicted too.


my son (20 years) and my partners son (23 years). Both have recently bought upmarket mobiles (I-Phone and a Blackberry Curve). Both have said that they now use their mobiles more than their desktops. And both have said that they "didn't know how managed before their mobile internet access".

ask them what exactly are they doing with those devices and im sure the answer will sound like what i just said above.

They sure arn't walking around with their credit cards out making online purchases.

J_RaD




msg:4048528
 7:19 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)


I think you'll see even more bizarre changes such as the mobile phone actually being used *AS* your credit card.

Someone already has apps that store all your shopping reward cards in the phone and it displays the rewards card barcode for the store to scan right on the phone screen. Now you don't need a pocket or keychain full of those cards anymore.

this makes more sense then people using them like they would to make purchase on their PC.

This would also benefit brick and mortar more then online businesses. I think in japan you can have your subway pass on your phone(any phone not just smart) instead of using the RFID card in your wallet.

incrediBILL




msg:4048532
 7:26 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

The question for this forum is not so much about apps but how to make apps that open up your website to this new emerging market.

That's a real problem because the apps make it easier to use your site than opening a page in a browser, unless it's done really well.

Many mash-up apps like WHERE are so much easier to use than sites in browsers people tend to depend on the apps more than surfing the web.

DanceParty




msg:4048611
 9:15 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

So, forum denizens, can you add to my list of tips for modern mobile web development?

as a dev, the best advice I can give you is to cloak your mobile traffic to special built mobile version of the site. Build that special version for 320x480 screen and make sure the layout is fluid, meaning it can resize itself easily. Use scalable font sizes and you will do just fine for existing and emerging smartphones for the next few years. A great example is wordpress plugin for mobile.

physics




msg:4048612
 9:15 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)

I think the lack of interest among many independent webmasters is the lack of a clear way to monetize mobile sites.

It'll take a real AdSense-for-mobiles type system that is dead easy to use and provides a proven revenue stream before a lot of people will invest time in mobile sites over 'normal' web sites. To put it another way, if a webmaster only has so many hours to devote to development he/she will devote that time to known revenue generating activities until that activity is no longer as profitable as they'd like. A forward-thinking webmaster _will_ spend some time researching new ways to make money though so it's definitely smart to be asking questions and doing research about mobile.

On the other hand, companies that can make deals with wireless service providers and/or get customers to commit to monthly service charges seem to be making good money on mobile. Maybe if someone can find a way to make those revenue streams more available to the 'little guy' we'd see more innovation from webmasters. Or, maybe they already have and most webmasters just aren't aware!

Also anand84 has a great point about mobile apps - I'm an iPhone owner and have spent money on apps - not so much buying stuff or clicking ads in the browser though.
Come to think of it, I've also spent money IN apps. Recently I really wanted to read book one of 'A Series of Unfortunate Events' so I opened up the Amazon Kindle app that I'd downloaded a while ago and not really used and bought the book right then and there... for the low price of $3.99 no less! This was a bit of an eye opener because it was probably the first thing other than apps that I'd bought on a mobile device. And remember the 90's - that started with books too. I've also used 'Amazon Mobile' app when in-store. I'll search for the price of items on Amazon so I can do comparison shopping and I've also used the cool 'Remembers' function where you can take a picture of an item and they match that item up with items available on Amazon.com so you can buy it later. I've also bought non-book items on Amazon from that app (on Black Friday no less - big box stores eat your heart out) - because my info was already all on Amazon it wasn't a pain to order from the phone. So ... guess things are picking up for mobile shopping.

Again, though, this comes back to it being easier for 'big companies' to make money on mobile, and it being apparently easier to earn money with apps than it is for independent webmasters to make money by making mobile web sites.

Hopefully that will change - I'd hate it if independent webmasters were marginalized by mobile. If there were more standardized payment and shipping options more people might shop on various websites on their phones. Services like PayPal might become a popular option for paying for items on the phone - any website can (in theory) use PayPal Mobile Checkout as a payment option and if they did provide that option I wouldn't have to enter my billing info on the phone.

Thanks for starting this discussion nomis5, it's definitely got me thinking!

physics




msg:4048614
 9:19 pm on Dec 23, 2009 (gmt 0)


The highest value purchase was a lamborghini at $300,000 - through a mobile app!

Wow. Thanks for sharing that James. Put a big smile on my face :)

incrediBILL




msg:4048725
 12:50 am on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

because my info was already all on Amazon it wasn't a pain to order from the phone.

Exactly!

So sites not currently using things like PayPal could all do themselves a favor and implement PayPal checkout so it's about as smooth as Amazon no matter where you shop, no typing in all your information on the tiny keyboard.

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