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This 85 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 85 ( 1 [2] 3 > >     
Mobiles - Why so Little Interest?
nomis5




msg:4037259
 8:58 pm on Dec 4, 2009 (gmt 0)

Development of mobile phone websites have been interesting me for the last year or so. I've made a few posts here over that time. Now I have a couple of mobiles (small screen Samsung and a top of the range large screen Nokia) and I also have a .mobi domain with some very basic content.

The .mobi and the purchase of the large screen Nokia were inevitable but hastened by a discussion with my son (20 years) and my partners son (23 years). Both have recently bought upmarket mobiles (I-Phone and a Blackberry Curve). Both have said that they now use their mobiles more than their desktops. And both have said that they "didn't know how managed before their mobile internet access".

So, I'm sold on the idea and will continue posting here on progress. I just don't understand why there is so little interest in mobile web site development. Any idea why?

 

rollinj




msg:4048752
 2:04 am on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Aren't most smartphones/mobiles created to render regular html pages?

It's the devices themselves that are inhibiting mobile development IMO. They all claim to "see pages as you would on your computer screen".

J_RaD




msg:4048777
 3:54 am on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

normal people don't use their phone as they would their computer.

CainIV




msg:4048793
 5:26 am on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Most average users have a hard enough getting through a standard shopping cart on a 1400 X 800 browser, let alone on a mobile device.....

KenB




msg:4048897
 12:49 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Aren't most smartphones/mobiles created to render regular html pages?

It's the devices themselves that are inhibiting mobile development IMO. They all claim to "see pages as you would on your computer screen".


This here is the problem. HTML/CSS specifications allow for a media="handheld" designation when calling stylesheets. If that stylesheet is present, hand held devices should be calling it unless the user over rides things and specifies they want the regular layout.

Another annoyance for me with browsers in general is that they could reduce page loading time if they would stop calling CSS files they don't need. For instance, a browser on a regular computer should not be calling CSS files flagged as "handheld" and should wait to call CSS files flagged as "printer" until the user actually goes to print a page. From what I have been able to tell browsers tend to call all the stylesheets and then decide which to use. This is a waste.

ogletree




msg:4048953
 4:35 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Since I got my Droid I spend much less time on my laptop and desktop. People who say they only got one sale from a cell phone look at that stat as people don't buy online. What that really means is that your site is terrible on cell phones. I'm starting to get in the mobile space with websites and apps because I think it is going to be the future.

J_RaD




msg:4048979
 5:03 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

well thats a big step back in time then.

Seb7




msg:4049007
 6:36 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

nomis5, keep at it, though the mobile web has been around for a while, it has only just started to take off.

There will soon be lots of mobile browsers. The problem is that these smart phones are too smart in that they can view the web without any adjustments for the mobile phone.

My smart phone has become another browser test. It has become more important to me to test websites under different screen resolutions.

incrediBILL




msg:4049030
 7:45 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

normal people don't use their phone as they would their computer.

That's a broad brush stroke to paint with that has no evidence to support it.

First, it makes a massive assumption of what is normal or people you consider "normal" and an even bigger assumption of what we do with our computers.

Many people I know use the computer for email, IM, browsing, You Tube, RSS feeds and music, nothing you can't do with a mobile device which is why many young people don't feel the need to be tethered to the desktop once they get a smart phone.

They aren't programmers, web designers, graphics artists or any computer professional requiring big screens, laptops or desktops.

Sure, you can't play Second Life on the smart phone (yet) but you can put it in your pocket and take the internet with you while you have a First Life!

BTW, I guess poker players aren't "normal" because I've noticed when I'm out playing tournaments that many of the players now have smart phones and do a LOT of email, texting, stats recording and of course playing music during the game or watching TV.

well thats a big step back in time then.

On the contrary, smart phones are first step of binding the internet to the real world.

You don't need to run to the store or wait to get home to make a purchase, if it's on your mind, whip out the phone and make it happen or make a memo at a minimum.

It's the beginning of the next revolution.

Perhaps viewing "Sixth Sense" [youtube.com] will bring you up to speed on where it's going.

All the technology is already here, the hardware and software mash-ups are already underway.

aleksl




msg:4049051
 10:12 pm on Dec 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

celerityfm, great presentation, but I'd like to get some of that stuff these Morgan Stanley hot shots are smoking to get their ideas. Out of first 20 pages, more than 10 with blatantly WRONG or erroneous conclusions. Talking about unable to see the real picture, no wonder they'll get this one wrong as well.

So let me guess...big companies see the phones as one more impulse buying channel...that plus very easy for law enforcement to track people... so they are pushing this HARD. Which probably means that since there's big BIG money behind this "oh, people trend", he-he...this will go some place at least.

incrediBill, as far as Sixth Sense, I stopped watching after the lady suggested that the mobile device will suggest which toilet paper is more sensible to buy - there was so much crypto-...whatever crap loaded in that one single sentence :) oh yeah, and it only costs $350.

I got one word:

DISCONNECT.

-
But I can see how smartphones will be dominating the niche, doesn't make sense to develop for tiny regular mobile screens, unless there's real dollars to be made (niche).

J_RaD




msg:4049097
 2:13 am on Dec 25, 2009 (gmt 0)


They aren't programmers, web designers, graphics artists or any computer professional requiring big screens, laptops or desktops

they don't like full rez DSLR pictures?
they don't like full HD video?
they like viewing everything thru a 4 inch screen?

shucks i guess i should go back in time to 1 megapix pictures and VHS video! because everyone is buying moble computers from the late 90's with 1/3 the resolution.

sure mobile phones are handy but they are hardly sounding the deathtoll to the REAL computer.

and the people that make these devices sure are makinga killing selling 20 bux of parts for $300++++ to the person or the carrier.


internet with you while you have a First Life!

if you are the type of person thats worried if you have the internet in your pocket or not i'd say you are far from a 1st life as you can be...and you actually may be be in the group of people that has a nervous break down if twitter goes offline for 3 hours.

they want you hooked on the internet because you'll be hooked on a service contract! And if you don't have internet access POOF you are the proud owner of a worthless device that does nothing.

incrediBILL




msg:4049199
 8:57 am on Dec 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

incrediBill, as far as Sixth Sense, I stopped watching after the lady suggested that the mobile device will suggest which toilet paper is more sensible to buy

Um, the mobile devices I have already do that today, it was just done in a different way in Sixth Sense. My Android's camera has a barcode scanner app that can pull up comparison pricing and reviews on just about anything. The only difference in Sixth Sense is the info is projected instead of using the screen.

I haven't used it for checking toilet paper prices yet but it sure comes in handy comparing big ticket items.

they like viewing everything thru a 4 inch screen?

Alternatives now include projectors and personal video glasses which give larger virtual displays at 640x480 or 800x600, improving in resolution as they evolve.

if you are the type of person thats worried if you have the internet in your pocket or not i'd say you are far from a 1st life as you can be.

I could care less if twitter is up or down, you're missing what it's all about.

Having the internet in your pocket empowers you to find anything you need anywhere you go and enhances your overall experience.

For example: 100 miles away from home and you need gas? You can find the cheapest and closest in seconds, saving sometimes up to $.30+/gal vs. just pulling into the next available because you don't know any better.

Mobile internet is more about empowerment, the information you need when you need it where you need it.

Heck, I've got 2 x 24" displays on my desktop but they're worthless the minute I leave the room but the Android kicks in and gives me full access.

But back to the OT, the lack of interest becomes obvious with threads like this when there's a major lack of understanding and misconception.

Most webmasters don't get it yet, which is why they don't sell as much or attract as many mobile visitors, and that's where the problem lies.

The users of the 30M iPhone and 2M (growing daily) Android users plus the plethora of other smart phone device users get it, and we're shopping and using web services where it's most convenient to do so.

Those webmasters that are figuring mobile out are going to be way ahead of the curve as the mobile market increases drastically this holiday season.

You decide; either be on the forefront and embrace the rapid deployment of the latest generation of smart phones, or be on the sidelines scratching your head wondering why mobiles aren't using or spending your site.

This is definitely disruptive technology and how you address it will map out your future as either mobile friendly or one of those old desktop only dinosaur sites that won't catch on until it's way too late.

J_RaD




msg:4049265
 2:03 pm on Dec 25, 2009 (gmt 0)


The users of the 30M iPhone and 2M (growing daily) Android users plus the plethora of other smart phone device users get it

there are over 280M cell phones in the US. so this 32M number is 11%.

Should we all pave our roads to autobahn quality because some people drive sports cars, but most don't?

aleksl




msg:4049284
 3:26 pm on Dec 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

incrediBill, I do get it, there's an explosive growth in mobile usage. Mobile phones are convenient. GPS is AWESOME. HAving acccess to maps on your smartphone, is a good thing, when travelling.

But getting advice on how to buy toilet paper? No, that's driven from the TOP, i.e. "how can we make these people impulse buy more crap". Not by user demand. My point is that if the majority of advances are driven from the top, it is only the top who knows where technology will go (i.e. recent phone-projector stuff).

This is definitely disruptive technology

I agree.

Most webmasters don't get it yet, which is why they don't sell as much or attract as many mobile visitors, and that's where the problem lies.

so do you envision a big growth of mobile online commerce?

ogletree




msg:4049328
 5:22 pm on Dec 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

I have never wanted to use cell phones for Internet until I got my droid. The droid has the perfect size screen. Anything smaller is just not usefull to me.

I would have never thought I would use a cell phone like this. The droid has changed my life. It has untethered me from my computer.

mifi601




msg:4049339
 5:55 pm on Dec 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

I just made my first sale, texting my checkout URL to a client on an iPhone. The writing is on the wall in HUGE letters!

I still do not own a smart phone, figuring I spend so much time on my laptop, that I want 'off' time. But whenever I am away for more than 12 hrs I wish I had checked my mail ..

Anyway the reason I am here in this thread is exactly the feeling that there is a train leaving without me.

The contract is the only thing really keeping me from buying a droid. I spend 3 months here 3 months there etc (some of it in Europe) and I am not willing to pay the monthly charges while I am gone.

I think smart phones are the future. All around me, people that did not know how to use a computer are on their iPhones all day long - buying and 'sharing' stuff.

Why not grab a piece of that action?!

incrediBILL




msg:4049346
 6:04 pm on Dec 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

But getting advice on how to buy toilet paper? No, that's driven from the TOP, i.e. "how can we make these people impulse buy more crap". Not by user demand. My point is that if the majority of advances are driven from the top, it is only the top who knows where technology will go (i.e. recent phone-projector stuff).

You need to watch the video again because that's not what happened at all.

The consumer was checking to see if the toilet paper was environmentally friendly or not.

This is actually something of a concern to many people being environmentally correct and the smart phones brings that to the B&M shopping experience in real-time when you need it.

there are over 280M cell phones in the US. so this 32M number is 11%.

Should we all pave our roads to autobahn quality because some people drive sports cars, but most don't?

Still missing the point.

280 million cell phones doesn't equate to 280 million devices that are ecommerce enabled, my last 2 phones were 'web enabled' to some sucky degree but incapable of ecommerce as web know it on the web.

We, along with millions of other Sprint and Verizon customers just upgraded to devices capable of easily doing ecommerce in the last couple of months, and the volume is increasing every day.

Yes, it's time to start paving for those millions of new mobiles now ecommerce enabled because you have one chance to make a good impression, your first time, you'll either get bookmarked or your competitor who beat you to it will.

J_RaD




msg:4049456
 1:56 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)


GPS is AWESOME. HAving acccess to maps on your smartphone, is a good thing, when travelling.

99% of the cars rolling off the lines now have GPS already in the car, while having your phone do it is fun to have in your old car....this feature is going to just be redunant. Along with most of the people that all went out and got mini GPS's before smartphones did this..... so lets get everyone excited over a reduntant feature.

so sure if you are using the GPS on your phone cause you don't have either...don't be suprised when you jump in your friends car and say OMG I've got this my phone has GPS! and your friend says...um i've got a touch screen nav right here...and i've uploaded all my MP3 collection to it as well.


For example: 100 miles away from home and you need gas? You can find the cheapest and closest in seconds, saving sometimes up to $.30+/gal vs. just pulling into the next available because you don't know any better.

well you just told me an example of something my GPS did 1 year ago, long before your smartphone was on the market.

incrediBILL




msg:4049470
 2:44 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

well you just told me an example of something my GPS did 1 year ago, long before your smartphone was on the market.

Actually, Android was on the market, just not my version and the iPhone already had the technology as well.

99% of the cars rolling off the lines now have GPS already in the car, while having your phone do it is fun to have in your old car....this feature is going to just be redunant.

You've got it backwards as it's the GPS in the car is outdated, redundant device, Garmin & Tom Tom need to pack it up and go home because I'm not paying for that in my car when I already have better technology in the palm of my hand.

The car manufacturers don't get it either, the cars need a USB docking port for the latest model of phones, we don't need to pay for redundant devices built into the car.

Besides, the GPS in the phone works both INSIDE and OUTSIDE the car - the minute you step out of the car that in-dash navigation system is useless.

When I'm on foot in the city the GPS in the phone can still find locations and give me directions how to get there while the GPS in the car parked in the $6/hr lot is quite useless at that time.

Not to mention the new Google MAPs GPS blows away anything I've ever seen in any car or phone to date giving street level driving views. Tom Tom is so out of touch they're trying to sell a $99 app [news.cnet.com] when I already have it free and Google's is mind blowing by comparison.

So it appears Google gets mobiles, so why are the rest of us sitting around waiting for them dominate the mobile market?

I'll let the naysayers continue to say nay while I get back to making my sites more mobile friendly, something that will pay off in handsomely in the end.

J_RaD




msg:4049471
 2:50 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)


You've got it backwards as it's the GPS in the car is outdated

these arn't car GPS's from 8 years ago that used maps off a DVD - im also talking about the intergrated units. you know the ones that are popping out of everyones dash now, and the stuff in ford cars running microsoft sync. mobile phones make very handy take along devices but thats all

audi is also putting the google maps GPS into their cars.

its seems you are the one that is out of touch with anything that isn't a mobile phone.

aleksl




msg:4049495
 3:24 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

The consumer was checking to see if the toilet paper was environmentally friendly or not.

Well, until the basis for this "environmental" friendliness is based on a bunch of huey assumptions (like "global warming caused by humans releasing CO2"), this whole thing is exercise in futility. But I digress into politics...

The car manufacturers don't get it either, the cars need a USB docking port

yes they do, it just takes 4-6 years to develop and test new models, so they are by this much behind.

it appears Google gets mobiles, so why are the rest of us sitting around waiting for them dominate the mobile market?

they've got a few billion dollars more than I do, so all power to them :)

I am with ya, I just see billion dollar juggernauts position themselves in the niche - Nokia, Google, Apple and such. They are doing the usual stuff juggernauts do, which is build monopolies and barriers to entry for little guys. We - as webmasters - could all get together and start converting our sites to handle m-commerce, ...and some of us maybe succeed, if their product falls well onto m-commerce. But the rest probably have other more important things to do until market actually gets defined. That's what I think is happening, and why so little interest in it from webmasters. This will change in the next year, I am sure. Very exciting times, indeed.

incrediBILL




msg:4049502
 3:41 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

its seems you are the one that is out of touch with anything that isn't a mobile phone.

I'm totally in touch, and I know redundant when I see it.

The problem with the devices in the autos is they don't tend to update themselves and easily become obsolete because they are integrated, plus my destination list is in my phone, not my car, and I have no interest in learning how to/or synching to yet another device when I have all I need in the palm of my hand.

Waste of redundant hardware, money, time, etc.

But this has nothing to do with the OT, websites adapting to mobile, please get back to the topic.

J_RaD




msg:4049532
 4:54 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

they don't update themselves? my car e-mails me its maint report after its been scanned wirelessly from the car comp server for crying out loud.

yes lets get back OT you are getting into deeper waters.

Visit Thailand




msg:4049538
 5:52 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

I strongly believe the future is mobile. just look at some of the New airline sites that were made specifically for mobile devices. wow

the problem is some sites are not designedfor mobiles and just happen to work.
I just bought the HTC hd2 and am amazed by it. I just wish more sites were better designed

skipfactor




msg:4049548
 7:07 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

naysayer > smartphone > many of my sites broken on SP browser > my .mobi sites look like child's play > oh I get it now > awaiting Jakob's post on smartphone usability so I can ace another checklist > laughing at the naysayers (me).

Why not prepare? Not that difficult. WW works great on this smartphone.

incrediBILL




msg:4049549
 7:19 am on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

they don't update themselves? my car e-mails me its maint report after its been scanned wirelessly from the car comp server for crying out loud.

Sending an email is far from updating technology that's built into the dash.

Most people don't replace their cars dashboard, or their car every 2 years like they easily replace old phones to get the next level of technology.

Sheesh.

J_RaD




msg:4049621
 3:04 pm on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

sheesh?

you still think an upgrade means you have to rip up the dash and replace the physical unit? or worse REPLACE THE WHOLE CAR?

say it with me - "wireless software updates" (they even mail you a CD OR do a direct download over the internet if you'd prefer) and lots of the new ones even have your car connected to the internet while you are driving around.

like I said, out of touch.

[edited by: J_RaD at 3:24 pm (utc) on Dec. 26, 2009]

incrediBILL




msg:4049623
 3:19 pm on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

say it with me - "wireless software updates"

I know all about wireless software updates but that doesn't help with new hardware advances that leave in-dash gear obsolete which was my point and you know it.

At the rate auto-companies are closing and models are being discontinued, I'm sure Android and iPhone has a better chance at continued wireless updates than anything rolling off an auto assembly line.

We - as webmasters - could all get together and start converting our sites to handle m-commerce

Which could be as simple as offering something simple like Paypal to make checkout much easier. Otherwise, you have to fill in all your billing information on every website, opposed to sites like Amazon where you only do it one time. That concept works for the rest of the world too but not if you have to register per site, therefore Paypal steps in and helps at with redundancy as well.

J_RaD




msg:4049628
 3:34 pm on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)


I know all about wireless software updates but that doesn't help with new hardware advances that leave in-dash gear obsolete

you've got a GPS, you've got a touch screen, you've got updated maps and info.

why does the hardware need to change to keep up with that? Are they coming out with a 3d hologram GPS anytime soon? GPS isn't complex and software upgrades will keep it relevant for way into the future.


At the rate auto-companies are closing and models are being discontinued

oh thats right, in an effort to save money the auto manu put totally different GPS units into every single model and there is no overlap at all. Are you kidding? have you been in a few new models of cars in the past 15 years...they LOVE using the same parts in as many cars as they can to save $$

new cars already do 100% of what a smart phone can do (for a car,) the only people loving their smart phone in their car are the people driving old cars.

Harry




msg:4049647
 4:54 pm on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

The current debate on whether Webmasters should care about mobile penetration is interesting. As an aside, I noticed that many people here finally "got" the mobile thing when they got their Droids. I had a similar experience with my Palm Pre. I do have a question, however to Droid users.

Android reformats pages and set font sizes and styles so the text always appears well on a Web page. Other Webkit mobile devices, like the iPhone and the Palm Pre don't. They keep the page settings as is, unless when using a mobile site.

It seems that, in terms of philosophy of Web access to mobile devices, Google has decided that they should override local settings for the benefits of their users. Other providers, like Nokia, Apple and Palm, seem to have a different outlook and prefer leaving as much control and the original layout and formatting as set by the Webmaster.

In one instance, you've got one company giving a pass to recalcitrant Web developers. On the other side, the companies are preaching designers to adjust and optimize their settings for all users - theirs in particular.

I would say Google's Chrome and the plug in for IE6 is the same kind of philosophy. Fix the Web yourself - be proactive so your users reap the benefits.

I'll say, I rather like how Apple, Nokia and Palm encourage their users to better design Web pages for all users, instead of correcting them on the fly. The reformatting in the Droid, while useful, does change the original intents of the site's owner.

What is your view on this? Like proactive companies like Google, or those that try to educate developers into using better standards?

incrediBILL




msg:4049652
 5:10 pm on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

new cars already do 100% of what a smart phone can do

not. even. close.

Get a new smart phone and then we can discuss this further ;)

ken_b




msg:4049657
 5:20 pm on Dec 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

I thought I was going to read a thread about...

Mobiles - Why so Little Interest?

Instead I read a silly pi$$ing match.

How fun.

Great way to drag WW down to the gutter level of some other webmaster forums.

This 85 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 85 ( 1 [2] 3 > >
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