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Learning Web Programing From Scratch
successlieswithme




msg:3140193
 8:32 pm on Oct 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hello,
iam a stupid kid,
i want to learn HTML,XHTML, XML, php web2.0, AJAX something something all others

can anyone tell me an exact method to start,
what are recommended sites or books,

any kind of help is appreciated,
thank you.

 

mack




msg:3140284
 9:54 pm on Oct 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

The first step on your learnign path should be HTML. HTML is the foundation of the web. Once you have mastered HTML you are ready to start advancing your skills. I recomend your next step should be CSS. HTML and CSS workign together will enable to to construct lean functional pages.

Once you have gotten to grips with HTML and CSS I suggest you start learning a scripting language such as Perl or PHP. This will enable to design dynamic content.

Learning all of this is not simple and certainly not quick, but all in all very worth while if you want to advance your web dev knowledge.

Mack.

pigsinpink




msg:3140561
 2:36 am on Oct 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

Mack,

What do you think about learning PHP and MySQL together. I know PHP is quite popular, but friends have been telling me to make the extra effort and learn both. I have a workable knowledge of XHTML, HTML and CSS but I want to grow in my skills.

Toby

jtara




msg:3140640
 4:56 am on Oct 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

First, decide if you are more adept or interested in design, programming, or both.

If you really want to be good, begin at the beginning, and forget the web. Really.

If interested in design, first educate yourself in art and design. If interested in programming, learn programming. In both cases, you will benefit from formal training. Take courses in school initially that deal with theoretical foundations rather than focusing on pragmatic technique. (Art History, Color Theory, vs. PhotoShop. Structured Programming, Design Patterns, vs. PHP.)

If you aren't able to do this in a formal education setting, do the same using books or online resources.

What I am saying is, first learn to be a "real designer" and/or a "real programmer". An artist can pick-up digital and web tools. A software engineer can pick up any scripting language. What makes either able to produce a transcendant result is having a good foundation in theory and techniques that can be applied in any medium.

The web is so ubiquitous that you will pick up the specifics easily as you go along.

smells so good




msg:3140665
 5:38 am on Oct 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

Read the previous post again. jtara nailed it. I'm in my second computer career. I started it all with 4 semesters of school, learning basic programming and logic concepts - and I got to learn a couple of different languages. I followed that into a senior programmer position, and then followed that into web programming (and being my own boss). You simply cannot get here from where you are at right now, so decide on your path and start at the beginning. Best of luck to you.

successlieswithme




msg:3140851
 10:58 am on Oct 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hello,
thank you all for your valuable posts and suggestions.

i want to be a designer at all, i dont have art skills in my blood.
so i want to be a programmer only.

i wanted to learn HTML then CSS then PHP,
but jtara telling something which gives good life in future.

jtara, can you please give me a short chart on how to proceed,
i mean which one, i should learn first?
and can you get me books titles for them,
so that i can read them .
thank you.

rj87uk




msg:3140853
 11:06 am on Oct 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

successlieswithme,

Go here to learn HTML.
[w3schools.com...]

Go here to learn CSS. (Style Sheets)
[w3schools.com...]

Go here to learn PHP. (Server Scripting)
[w3schools.com...]

Go here to learn SQL. (DB language)
[w3schools.com...]

First learn HTML & CSS together.
Second learn PHP & SQL together.

Leosghost




msg:3140858
 11:29 am on Oct 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

agree with jtara ..
except that you cannot learn to be an artist ..

one is either born creative and can produce art and handle colours etc instinctively ..or not

no amount of tuition will turn you into a pro .

( one can be taught tricks etc to produce less galring errors in artwork or design ..and one can be taught the hsitory of art , colour theory ete etc )

but a creative artist will always blow your designs out of the water ..even if they have never had formal tution of any kind ..and you may have had years of it ..

talent is all

( and "who one knows" )

An artist can pick-up digital and web tools.

but of course ..learning to use any software is just a matter of application ..

learning to code ( pages or whatever ) takes time and practice ..but needs little if any creativity ..

As is evidenced by the visually appalling state of over 99.99% of all webpages not designed by artists ..although of those designed by artists ..many did not learn enough about their tools to make their pages functional ..

but then the last time that artists and scientists and mathematicians could be found inhabiting the same single bodies was around 500 years ago ..

nowadays most everyone and their dog just want to express themselves ..so you get "myspace" and no one knows how to nor cares how to paint rainbows and light anymore ..

because the only colour that counts ..

.is green

jtara




msg:3141147
 4:50 pm on Oct 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

learning to code ( pages or whatever ) takes time and practice ..but needs little if any creativity ..

While I agree with you completely about your comment on creating art (and, by extension, good design) I have to take exception.

OK, perhaps you are right when it comes to learning to CODE. But system design is quite another matter. First, let's talk about the difference between coding and system design. A coder is given a specification at some fairly low level. A system designer is given a problem to solve. Coders have sometimes been called "programmers", and system designers sometimes "systems analysts". To me, the term "programmer" really sits in the middle of these and a good one requires the skills and talents of both.

It takes considerable creativity to intuituvely know which tools will work best to solve a given problem, and how to structure software (and, often, hardware) to best solve the problem and to anticipate and accomodate change.

I'm going to give you a little side diversion as a starter. I'm going to give you two books (OK, 4) to read that won't teach you any programming language, but will help a lot to teach you how (and how not) to program. They are dated, and might amuse or confuse you with references to punch cards, JCL, and Cobol. :) They might be difficult to find. But they are classics. If you prefer, you might substitute more modern books on the same subject.

They are "The Psychology of Computer Programming" by Gerlad Weinberg, and "The Mythical Man-Month" by Frederick Brooks. They will teach you how people approach the task of programming, both alone and in groups.

Another book (also dated...) that I highly recommend, though not specifically about programming (it's about hardware design) is Tracy Kidder's "The Soul of a New Machine", which won a Pulitizer Prize. I'd also recommend "Death March" by Edward Yourdon.

You might notice that most of these books deal a lot with the "dark side" of programming - projects that go wrong and why. I think that's an awfully good place to start. :)

Beyond that, I would suggest that you go to a good college bookstore (or check online) and get the list of the courses and textbooks used in a BS in Computer Science program. Do not look at what your local community college uses. See what books UCSD, U. Michigan, MIT, use in their computer science courses.

You'll learn a computer programming language right-off - only because it is necessary in order to put any theory into practice. But most of all you will learn underlying theory. Even if you go no further than the first 4-5 courses, you will have a huge leg-up.

And, of course, if you have the opportunity to attend one of these schools - or to take a Computer Science curriculum at any good school - by all means do so! There is a HUGE shortage of well-trained programmers grounded in theory that can be applied using whatever programming languages are current.

Leosghost




msg:3141243
 5:55 pm on Oct 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

side note ..

system design I agree is different ;-)

BTW ..I began with punch cards and fortran and cobol in the early 70's ..

On a degree course in Art of all things ..:))

I must have been one of the last artsist to go through the UK art system that didn't begin by cutting up cows ( although strangely enough my education was all geared to getting the right O levels and A levels to go do a degree in veterinary research ..I changed course before the finals ..;-)..

Your advice for anyone starting out is spot on ..

pigsinpink




msg:3142290
 3:50 pm on Nov 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the tutorial rj87uk

successlieswithme




msg:3142535
 6:35 pm on Nov 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

thank you all

scraptoft




msg:3143164
 4:49 am on Nov 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

I have been tutoring myself using online resources and books for the past 3 years.
From experience I would certainly suggest learning as much as possible before starting any projects - no matter how desperate you are to make money or reach your goals.

My advice would be to self-dicipline:

A main fallback of mine was to convince myself that I am knowledgable enough to undertake big-time projects, when I don't have sufficient knowledge at all - thus losing tons of time trying to solve errors and methods in a learn-as-you-go type process.

Invest in a printer - print out tutorials from the web to read away from the monitor - this helps prevent your eyes from damage, saving them for those long night-to-morning coding shifts.

Good luck in your journey!

successlieswithme




msg:3143516
 12:17 pm on Nov 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

excellent point scraptoft

ronin




msg:3146823
 10:34 pm on Nov 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

First, decide if you are more adept or interested in design, programming, or both.

Actually, I would respectfully disagree that building a website is, in the first instance, about either graphic design or programming.

Graphic designers tend to see the web as a visual medium.
Programmers tend to see the web as a programming, scripting and database platform.
It is both of these to some extent but first and foremost the web is an information medium.

Markup can be described as a fourth level programming language, but it isn't really programming. It doesn't calculate anything or operate objects or run subroutines, it just marks up.

Marking up page elements is an information skill, not a graphic design or programming skill. Markup goes hand in hand with other skills like semantic coding, styling, page layout, information architecture, indexing, usability and accessibility.

You can go an awful long way in web development without knowing how to script or program and without being able to draw for toffee.

My personal take would be to first learn semantic HTML, then to learn CSS, then to study usability and then to learn the principles of information architecture.

Pedent




msg:3147698
 6:34 pm on Nov 6, 2006 (gmt 0)

My personal take would be to first learn semantic HTML, then to learn CSS, then to study usability and then to learn the principles of information architecture.

I'd begin with usability, then HTML, then CSS.

You need to know what you're aiming for before you learn how to do it.

I delayed studying usability, and am now having to go back and rework a lot of what I've done in the past.

ronburk




msg:3153274
 3:33 am on Nov 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

one is either born creative and can produce art and handle colours etc instinctively ..or not

Ah, this reminds me of a great pop-psych book: "Mindset".

If you have internalized stories like you have to be "born creative", and you would like to get beyond such self-limiting mindsets, this is the book for you.

One of the most memorable pages of the books shows a set of self-portraits by people who were not "born creative" and could not "produce art". They look like the most awful kindegarten stick drawings you can imagine. Then the book shows another set of self-portraits drawn by the exact same people after completing a short, intensive course taught by a masterful art teacher. The difference is astounding: they look like "real art".

Since reading that book, I always try to catch myself when I say untruths like "I'm no good at X". Instead, I try to say "I have not made the investment of work necessary to be good at X -- do I want to make that investment?"

philski




msg:3162126
 5:29 am on Nov 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hi all

Im in exactly the same situation, I am a webmaster/developer and constantly find i have to learn new programing languages to replace old ones, HTML is dead in the water with the changing face of the internet and as i guess the first question is all about developing for mobile,

try [developershome.com...]
easy to follow xthml(mp)

[pc.dev.mobi...]
a video setting out what you need to get a mobi site up and running there are 26 standards you need to meet. w3 validation is just one,

I know a lot of people still say html first,
but to be honest, W3 dropped it in 2001, you may as well learn broken english,

Kindest Regards
Phillip


Mistra




msg:3162166
 7:55 am on Nov 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hello successlieswithme,

You only need to learn 3 programming languages:

(1) C - structural/procedural step by step programming with lots of functions

(2) Java (or C++) - to learn Object Oriented Programming concepts with lots of classes

(3) Visual Basic

After you have learned those 3 above, the rest would be easy to pick up because almost all programming languages are the same.

HTML (XML, etc) can be learned in one day. Try to use Dreamweaver to design your page as you will be able to see your codes while designing.

As for books I recommend Deitel & Deitel books. Very good for beginners.

[edited by: Mistra at 7:59 am (utc) on Nov. 20, 2006]

ronin




msg:3162341
 12:12 pm on Nov 20, 2006 (gmt 0)

HTML is dead in the water with the changing face of the internet... you may as well learn broken English

?

HTML and CSS is all I use. There are many people running websites who are not programmers, never will be and will never have a need for one.

For many sites, having a back end database and using programming languages is like using a pneumatic drill to crack open a peanut.

Mistra




msg:3163627
 12:28 pm on Nov 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

HTML is not dead yet. Whether you use asp.net or php or jsp you still need HTML. The extension of your file might not be .html. But the content of your sites are definitely in HTML format. So learning HTML is important for beginner.

abbeyvet




msg:3163703
 2:25 pm on Nov 21, 2006 (gmt 0)

HTML is not dead, it was never even sick. W3C is about to restart development.

[webmasterworld.com...]

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