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Google Sting Exposes "Copying" by Bing
rogerd




msg:4261203
 3:16 pm on Feb 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google has run a sting operation that it says proves Bing has been watching what people search for on Google, the sites they select from Google’s results, then uses that information to improve Bing’s own search listings. Bing doesn’t deny this.

As a result of the apparent monitoring, Bing’s relevancy is potentially improving (or getting worse) on the back of Google’s own work. Google likens it to the digital equivalent of Bing leaning over during an exam and copying off of Google’s test. [searchengineland.com...]

 

Seb7




msg:4261455
 11:43 pm on Feb 1, 2011 (gmt 0)

I always thought from the start that the bing results was mostly based on goggle data. For a new search engine to all of sudden come up with similar websites to google was almost impossible in my mind. Though bing results are good, it's google that is really driving bing. Google has years and years of algorithms behind them, it would take years for another search engine to come close, unless you cheat!

celgins




msg:4261471
 12:30 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

I don't consider what Bing is doing as "cheating." It's just a part of the business, and we all know that Google isn't perfect either.

bears5122




msg:4261480
 12:43 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

How is this different than using data from toolbars or site analytics to make search engine better? You use the data that is readily available. If that includes Google's data, then so be it.

Google seems fine using everyone else's data but gets defensive when someone turns them tables around.

freejung




msg:4261483
 12:56 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Demaestro has an excellent point -- setting aside the ethical question of what data a search engine should use to establish relevance, this practice has the limiting effect that it would tend to push Bing's results toward being _only as good as_ Google's, but would not tend to make them _better than_ Google's.

So just from a sheer technical standpoint, this does nothing to improve search technology. Of course, anyone who was paying attention during the '90s would not expect any different from MS.

awall19




msg:4261488
 1:00 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Not sure about you, but if one of my competitors took all of the hard work that I have put in to my site and essentially copied the results without doing any of the work, and I had inescapable evidence of this, I would do the same thing that Google did.

And yet Google somehow justifies the scrape jobs they do on 3rd party review websites. And then they suggest only way to opt out of having your content used against you in their reviews section is to opt out of ranking in the regular search results as well.

It seems Google really likes Google's content, even if Google's content is 100% reliant on 3rd parties. But if anyone other than Google acts like Google then there should be a public relations smear campaign in the media.

Good work Google!

Olney




msg:4261491
 1:27 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

How is this different than using data from toolbars or site analytics to make search engine better? You use the data that is readily available. If that includes Google's data, then so be it.

Google seems fine using everyone else's data but gets defensive when someone turns them tables around.


Exactly I thought Google invested in Mozilla/Firefox to get search data & get an easier build for their own browser (chrome).

np2003




msg:4261521
 3:07 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google copies technology from other companies all the time and if they can't do it better they just buy them out or crush them with lots of money.

Web_speed




msg:4261522
 3:10 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)


A funny but classic case of "the pot calling the kettle..."

Google are seriously losing the plot lately.

What a drama queen!

mrguy




msg:4261523
 3:17 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google is complete joke. They act like a bunch of spoiled little kids and now that the adult has stepped out of the picture, things at Google are going to get interesting.

And the person who wrote that article is so in bed with Google it's not even funny. He appears in videos with Matt after all.

Of course it was written for his home team.

gpilling




msg:4261534
 4:19 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

So the only data that Bing would have had to work with, on these searches of made-up words, is the data collected from their toolbar?

And we are amazed that this created the #1 ranking for the fictional words? It was the ONLY data Bing had. And I don't even like Bing.

youfoundjake




msg:4261536
 4:28 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

I think the difference between the use of a toolbar or analytical code, is that Microsoft will spend a vast amount of money to develope the toolbar or system to track the analytical code, their own money, taken off of their bottom line. When they start "scraping" the SERPS of a competitor, the most they have invested is the man power to design something to mine that data (toolbar).
It's an easy way out to say that Google collects data from users through search terms and chrome and various other toolbars or analytics.
I'm curious though, are the people that are excited (albeit hesitant) that Google is attempting to purge the index of scraped content (which has been discussed here at WebmasterWorld quite often) the same people that see no wrong with Bing scrapping Google's results?

@mrguy Danny Sullivan is probably one of the most knowledgeable people concerning the search industry, and has long been involved with numerous people from every engine out there. I'm pretty sure that if Danny calls a company out in public, whether its Google, Microsoft, or the New York Times, CEO's of those companies will listen, because he's so impartial. Knowledge and experience gives a different perspective my friend. But hey, keep coming back..

mrguy




msg:4261538
 4:42 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

@mrguy Danny Sullivan is probably one of the most knowledgeable people concerning the search industry, and has long been involved with numerous people from every engine out there. I'm pretty sure that if Danny calls a company out in public, whether its Google, Microsoft, or the New York Times, CEO's of those companies will listen, because he's so impartial. Knowledge and experience gives a different perspective my friend. But hey, keep coming back..


I'm well aware of who Danny is, I've been reading his stuff for a very long time. As of late, a lot of what I read is very pro Google. But once I see him appearing in Videos with Matt, I just have to question his bias. That's just me though.

The fact that Google top level people even devoted time to doing this tells me they are worried about Bing. Instead of spending time on fixing the many things that are wrong with Google, they felt compelled to try and embarass them which I don't then they did. Shum handled it very well.

Did MSN make a big deal out of Google copying thier Background image or the many other ideas Google as ripped off, no. They may have jabbed them here and there with a tweet, but certainly not like Matt did.

Google reminds me of a bunch of little kids whining.

[edited by: mrguy at 4:44 am (utc) on Feb 2, 2011]

Jane_Doe




msg:4261540
 4:43 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

but if one of my competitors took all of the hard work that I have put in to my site and essentially copied the results without doing any of the work


Now maybe Google will understand why many of us feel the way we do about ehow and their ilk.

graeme_p




msg:4261604
 9:49 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

It does not make Bing look good.

The big revelation for me was that IE (or is it an optional toolbar, the stories I have read are not quite clear?) sends so much data back to MS.

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:4261610
 9:58 am on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

The fact that Google top level people even devoted time to doing this tells me they are worried about Bing.


Exactly!

m0thman




msg:4261650
 12:15 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. If you look on the underside of Bing you'll see a label that says "Made in China".

engine




msg:4261656
 12:45 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Bing responds

Thoughts on search quality
[bing.com]
To be clear, we learn from all of our customers. What we saw in today’s story was a spy-novelesque stunt to generate extreme outliers in tail query ranking. It was a creative tactic by a competitor, and we’ll take it as a back-handed compliment. But it doesn’t accurately portray how we use opt-in customer data as one of many inputs to help improve our user experience.

The history of the web and the improvement of a broad array of consumer and business experiences is actually the story of collective intelligence, from sharing HTML documents to hypertext links to click data and beyond. Many companies across the Internet use this collective intelligence to make their products better every day.


loner




msg:4261658
 1:06 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Goo will have to learn that if they don't want something scrapped, they shouldn't put it on the web to begin with. Maybe they should simply 'opt out', everyday.

londrum




msg:4261665
 1:27 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

google do exactly the same thing with analytics.

if someone visits a site via Bing, and that site has anayltics installed, then google straight away logs the search term in the stats.

there is no real difference between that, and Bing logging search terms through internet explorer. Google use analytics, and Microsoft uses IE. what's the difference?

trillianjedi




msg:4261667
 1:31 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

The fact that Google top level people even devoted time to doing this tells me they are worried about Bing


Who for a moment ever thought they weren't ? MicroSoft is a big player. Any big player entering any space warrants some attention.

This is a great PR spin by Google though - MS played right into this hand.

m0thman




msg:4261669
 1:33 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

tells me they are worried about Bing


Personally, I don't think Google have anything to worry about.

pageoneresults




msg:4261672
 1:38 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Yawn.

I'd expect the folks at Microsoft to counter this. I'm anxious to see what they uncover about the Google Toolbar?

Now we have the Search Cartel and Sting Operations afoot.

RhinoFish




msg:4261683
 2:01 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

regardless of who (they both do it), using consumer behavior as a proxy for determining quality is fraught with problems. the idealist in me continues to hope a better way emerges. i hope this whole dealio inspires more entrepreneurs to start up new search engines.

Tropical Island




msg:4261688
 2:18 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

...they are worried about Bing.


No one is worried about Bing. It's a joke.

This is just catching a competitor stealing your work.
Typical MS - if you can't create it - steal it or buy it.

SEO2Go




msg:4261739
 3:47 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google copied Bing's image search. Companies steal from each other all the time. Shocker.

Rockyou




msg:4261741
 3:50 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Mr.Matt Cutts, stop this nonsense, who stealed Bing image search format, if you are not sure, I will answer for you, its GOOGLE.

Google is getting the same medicine what it gave to others, So why complaining now?

Google always wanted to interfere with others privacy, Now thinking for your own privacy?, very strange!

m0thman




msg:4261746
 4:08 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google just does it better. Most of the time Bing churns similar stuff to Google, but I think Google tries to interpret what you are really searching for better. Try these and you'll see.. Google FTW

Is the world round?
Are strangers bad?
Crime statistics for SE4 1XY

dataguy




msg:4261751
 4:25 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

I think most of you have missed the part (not in this Search Engine Land article) that Google wrote a special hack into their search algo where the search phrase 'mbzrygjys' would lead to a specific, completely unrelated RIM web page, and then the same search in Bing returned the same page. This means that Bing wasn't simply 'enhancing' their search results, they were all-out copying since there's no way that phrase should return that page except for the Google algo hack.

Here's a link to another article: [siliconvalley.com...]

engine




msg:4261754
 4:33 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

LOL, now, i've got the "add a background image to your google home page" option back again.

Rlilly




msg:4261783
 5:38 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

In essence, is not Google saying Bing results are just as good as thiers.

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:4261852
 7:53 pm on Feb 2, 2011 (gmt 0)

This is a great PR spin by Google though

PR spin where? I have heard nothing about this outside of this forum. No real PR to be gained from this I am afraid.

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