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Differences in results for MSN Search and Live.com
Also different for non-U.S. searches
Marcia




msg:3277795
 7:33 pm on Mar 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

I know it's supposed to be the same, but it doesn't appear to be.

I have AWStats and a report of the last 300 referrers through Cpanel for some sites, and for sites that have been ranking for certain phrases all along, if I click through the referring link in the "last 300" I can see that the ranking is the same as it's been all along, and that traffic is coming in as it has been all along - but in all, a very reduced amount for those phrases.

What's interesting is that when I click over to the SERPs from the "last 300," it's actually MSN search, not Live.com and MSN's text on the pages is in Spanish.

If I then go directly to live.com and do the same search, the page is nowhere near the same place, it's dropped down and there's a different set of search results.

I can see the same thing happening with MSN's out-of-U.S. search, like Canada and Australia. They'll have the pages ranked as they've been all along, unlike at live.com where they dropped down several months ago.

This isn't a one time thing, it's been happening consistently for several months.

It may be the same index and the same algo, but all I can deduce about the differences is that there's some filtering going on at the "main" Live.com search that isn't happening elsewhere. The questions would be, what are pages being filtered for, or possibly - what are they lacking that's carrying weight at live.com?

 

Shurik




msg:3277932
 10:25 pm on Mar 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

Mircia, I think we have already established an existence of special filter that is language specific (mkr argument). In my opinion it is MSN's equivalent of google's trust rank. Application of that filter causes complete loss of rank in the last stage of result ordering (similar to supplemental results). Thus, sites that rank on the first page in some "markets" finish last in others. Below is a list of my MSN ranking for one of my keywords.
1 - means first page, 0 - last page or not found
It would be curious to know if your ranking pattern matches mine

1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
1 [search.live.com...]
0 [search.live.com...]

Marcia




msg:3277983
 11:36 pm on Mar 10, 2007 (gmt 0)

I'm aware of language and locality diferences, but this isn't really a language issue, it's all U.S. results - other languages are another issue.

Also, since I've got a few new sites going up and just now being indexed, I'll be monitoring closely because I suspect there's a time factor involved, or that *something* that happens with time is triggering a filter (or filters) that's being applied.

It's identifying what's triggering those filters I'm primarily worried about, enough to actually be *efficient" in logging a timeline and events on new sites, since more than a few sites rank nicely at first and then drop down or out as time goes on. And what I've noticed is that the "foreign" results seem to mirror what the original results were on "main" live.com a while back which I've seen with a cache date at the foreign sites last May compared to more recent cache dates.

>>It would be curious to know if your ranking pattern matches mine

I'll definitely check it out this week and get back to you, and also be glad to share what I notice for newer sites over the next few weeks or months - which is why I've brought this up.

Added:

I've got some suspicions, though they're mostly based on hunches, and will be going through some MSN patents and white papers to single out possible factors.

[edited by: Marcia at 12:11 am (utc) on Mar. 11, 2007]

Marcia




msg:3278055
 1:45 am on Mar 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

I just went directly to [msn.com...] and searched, and their text on the results pages are in Spanish.

1 de 259 resultados ·Opciones ·Avanzada
SITIOS PATROCINADOS

Shurik




msg:3278443
 4:10 pm on Mar 11, 2007 (gmt 0)

Try to delete MSN cookie

Marcia




msg:3289323
 6:04 am on Mar 22, 2007 (gmt 0)

I deleted MSN cookies and the same thing happened. Earlier today I submitted a site (yeah, I still do once in a while LOL) and went to live.com, clicked on the link on bottom for webmasters and then to the submission page

[search.msn.com...]

If you go there, what do you see? For me it's in Spanish. :)

marketingmagic




msg:3291844
 2:38 pm on Mar 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Changing the market (ca, us, etc...) changes the serps entirely.

For our main keywords we rank awesome in the ca market but horribly for the us market. Why? Contact us page info? Our host is in the US, so it's not ip related. Whois info?

In any case it sucks as our main market is in the US.

Any suggestions?

netplus




msg:3291913
 4:25 pm on Mar 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Could it be the backlink? For instance, if most of your backlink come from certain countries therefore msn would rank you better on those countries. This is just my guess, I am also curious about this.

scotland




msg:3291941
 6:05 pm on Mar 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

I am having the same problem with msn.com search results not even listing my sites for 5-7 pages (when they used to be first) while msn.co.uk results put my sites in the first or or least in page 1.

Has msn search live messed up other people website position as well? and is there any practical solution to correct this.

Richard

scotland




msg:3291952
 6:17 pm on Mar 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

Even more confused ... I tried the different combinations of msn.com and search.live.com and one of my keywords is first in search.live.com when it is set to GB or US, yet the same search on msn.com gives totally different results with my site somewhere on page ... who knows.

I have possibly missed the discussion on this elsewhere on the forum so if someone could kindly explain the above, or point me to a forum area where I will find some kind of logical answer I would appreciate it.

Fish_Texas




msg:3292073
 9:33 pm on Mar 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

This might shed some light...After waiting months for new pages to be indexed, I ran across this link for submitting to MSN...
Notice it's a Beta Search link and not the old MSNSearch link.

[beta.search.msn.com...]

I guess when the new Algo started in Aug 06, some wires got crossed and it did not carry over all pages to new algo.
After submitting my index page to this link, my new pages are being indexed promptly and in the serps in a few weeks.

This might explain the different serps...Old Algo vs. New Algo...
Fish Texas

Marcia




msg:3292143
 10:14 pm on Mar 24, 2007 (gmt 0)

At that url:

Envía tu sitio a Live Search
Más información sobre:
Indexación de sitios

Normalmente, nuestro agente de búsqueda, MSNBot, puede encontrar la mayoría de páginas de Internet. Sin embargo, si tu sitio no aparece en Live Search, puedes enviarnos la dirección (URL).


Aug 6th - interesting, that's about when a site of mine was moved and totally disappeared forever.

Searching gives a different result too, placement is what it was quite a while ago, and that's where the traffic is now coming in from for a particular site I'm checking on.

[edited by: Marcia at 10:20 pm (utc) on Mar. 24, 2007]

netplus




msg:3292383
 8:59 am on Mar 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Thanks Fish_Texas. Very good finding. I just submit my website and hopefully it will show in few weeks.

Fish_Texas




msg:3292604
 2:49 pm on Mar 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Net Plus...If your site complies with MSN, it should.
MSN also likes LOW KW density in Meta Tag description and over all page KW density...AND they SEEM to like smaller pages.IMO.

Fish Texas

netplus




msg:3292647
 4:26 pm on Mar 25, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hi Fish_Texas,
Currently, my site ranks well on market other than U.S (eg:canada,australia). Meaning, it should complies with MSN right? Also, is it possible that my site got penalized on US market but not on non-US market?

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