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The Macintosh Webmaster Forum

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Safari 4 beta available
For you brave souls who like beta sofware.
travelin cat




msg:3856749
 4:45 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Apple just announced the new Safari 4 beta [apple.com].

 

engine




msg:3856812
 5:55 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Apple Announces Safari 4 [apple.com] Beta
Apple® today announced the public beta of Safari® 4, the world’s fastest and most innovative web browser for Mac® and Windows PCs. The Nitro engine in Safari 4 runs JavaScript 4.2 times faster than Safari 3.* Innovative new features that make browsing more intuitive and enjoyable include Top Sites, for a stunning visual preview of frequently visited pages; Full History Search, to search through titles, web addresses and the complete text of recently viewed pages; Cover Flow®, to easily flip through web history or bookmarks; and Tabs on Top, to make tabbed browsing easier and more intuitive.

weeks




msg:3856830
 6:08 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm testing it right now and, hahahahahahaha....
This is so cool.

travelin cat




msg:3856847
 6:30 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Weeks, what were you using previously that you can compare it to?

weeks




msg:3856877
 7:04 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

My work horse is FF, but I used Safari a lot in testing.

But, it's the nifty "top sites" feature that gives you an iTunes view of your favorites that has me smiling. It's not a big deal, but it's fun.

That said, it does seem fast.

Chico_Loco




msg:3856912
 7:51 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Not a fan of the new tab-bar location... They aren't as visible up there. Accidentally double-tap with the trackpad and the window minimizes because it's actually the title bar.

[edited by: Chico_Loco at 7:52 pm (utc) on Feb. 24, 2009]

incrediBILL




msg:3856942
 8:26 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

Just playing with it and the tab bar location is truly idiotic, completely unusable for me as I have a lot of tabs open in general and this implementation is just too obscure.

The other bizarre thing, and maybe this is a MACism, but the Preferences dialog appears to have no way to CANCEL inadvertent changes you may make. The only button is to close the window so settings are saved no matter what. FAIL.

weeks




msg:3856974
 8:51 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

The tabs are at the top. Oh, yeah, there they are...thanks.

I kind of like it. I think.

Bill, I'm on a mac and there is no problem for me to change the Preferences in the dialog box. Maybe the Windows flavor is different.

mack




msg:3856978
 8:56 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

today was my first day using safari and all in all I am pretty impressed. I like how it allows you to flick through your history using page images. Very cool tool.

Mack.

weeks




msg:3856982
 9:06 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

It's not super self-evident how to see what Mack is talking about. Try this:

1) Go to history at the top and say "show all history." Whoa!
2) Now, go to "top sites" under history. Click on the little search box in the lower right corner....Hey! (This is on a state-of-the-art Mac, BTW. Your mileage may vary.)

Also, I like the way one can move the tabs around on the top.

Samizdata




msg:3857005
 9:29 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

I installed it on my old Pismo for a test drive.

It refused to play an embedded-via-javascript WMV file on one of my sites with the message:

"Safari can't find the Internet plug-in... content of MIME type video/x-ms-wmv"

Previous versions of Safari (and all other desktop browsers) play it fine.

Fortunately I only use WMV files to show that it is possible (on a test page).

No other plugins were affected.

...

timster




msg:3857079
 10:59 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

I've been using it on my work PC laptop all day. Seems very zippy, no crashing or anything.

I am disappointed that they haven't added an "exceptions" feature for cookies.

incrediBILL




msg:3857093
 11:22 pm on Feb 24, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm on a mac and there is no problem for me to change the Preferences in the dialog box.

I didn't say I had a problem setting Preferences, but the dialog box doesn't conform to traditional norms with buttons like CANCEL in the event you didn't want to change anything and escape without change.

travelin cat




msg:3857120
 12:15 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

incrediBILL,

Mac users don't make mistakes, so there is no reason to have a cancel button.;)

FWIW on the Mac, FireFox doesn't have one either, but Opera does.

Samizdata




msg:3857129
 12:42 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

maybe this is a MACism

Current Mac browsers:

Safari, Firefox, iCab, OmniWeb - no Cancel button

Opera, SeaMonkey - Cancel button

traditional norms

Windows traditional norms perhaps, but then so are talking paperclips and animated yellow puppies.

A better point might have been that a Cancel button is more user-friendly interface design.

And yes, I use them in my own web applications.

--

Another observation: no Reload/Refresh button in the new Beta, but a Home button instead.

Fortunately I "think different" and use the keyboard shortcut anyway.

...

koan




msg:3857168
 2:07 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

Windows traditional norms perhaps, but then so are talking paperclips and animated yellow puppies.

One application using these does not make it a norm. But hundreds of thousands of softwares using the cancel button to undo inadvertent changes is usually a good hint that it should be a requirement for modern, user friendly applications.

It's okay to borrow from the Windows world. Windows does it all the time.

incrediBILL




msg:3857200
 3:02 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

Windows traditional norms perhaps, but then so are talking paperclips and animated yellow puppies.

I used a CANCEL button on a Mac long before I ever used on one Windows, it's a common GUI thing, something even my Mom uses to make sure she didn't mess something up when she's unsure.

weeks




msg:3857223
 3:54 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

Bill, it's a checkbox and you can check it and uncheck it all you want, it what I meant. But, no, you cannot make several changes and want to undo all of them and revert. But, sheee, it's only like, maybe, seven item per dialog box.

This is a fun, cool, zippy little thing. Better? Who is to say. Different and colorful? Oh yeah.

Has anyone every noticed that a lot of the people here are...geeks? Who would have thought...

Samizdata




msg:3857229
 4:03 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

My point was that as most Mac OSX browsers - including the two dominant ones - don't use a Cancel button for Preferences (see above and add Camino and Flock to the "no cancel" list) it is not a tradition for browsers on that operating system in any meaningful sense of the term.

Thank you for your understanding.

...

incrediBILL




msg:3857232
 4:19 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

But, sheee, it's only like, maybe, seven item per dialog box.

Doesn't matter, as a GUI designer and someone that takes calls from elderly relatives that have no clue how they just screwed up their browser (or anything else on the computer), that CANCEL button can save lives, mostly mine from being wasted on the phone trying to figure out what happened.

incrediBILL




msg:3857234
 4:21 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

it is not a tradition for browsers on that operating system in any meaningful sense of the term.

Has nothing to do with browser tradition, it has to do with standards.

No big deal either way, just totally caught me off guard.

swa66




msg:3857336
 9:48 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

Most mac software uses no ok nor cancel buttons on preferences, including "system preferences", which for those not yet switched to a mac is more or less what "control panel" is.
Actually of all the programs that were running right now on my mac, I found only one that had OK and CANCEL buttons below the preferences menu: Microsoft word 2008. It's very confusing as the window doesn't have a close button, nor do you see the effects of the settings immediately, but you have to use the ok or cancel to get rid of the preferences window.
I prefer the normal mac way, it's actually something I tell people about when I fist teach them to use their new mac, never had a single "help" call for messing up settings though.

2clean




msg:3857346
 10:19 am on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

All I will say is that when a friend said he couldn't get on the internet because he lost his Mac install disk, I quietly chuckled to myself ("mac users what a great benchmark).

;)

domrep




msg:3857506
 3:35 pm on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

If you cannot get access to the Internet after installing on a Mac, then check your advanced settings on your Airport. Safari 4 installer had inadvertently enabled web proxies. After unchecking this in the advanced tab of AirPort preferences, everything was working fine.

First impressions, quick and a love the cover flow feature in the history.

gdjones83




msg:3857684
 7:24 pm on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

I like the some of the new features on safari 4, as weeks mentioned the top sites feature is pretty cool, not sure if I like the tabs being above the address bar though, the same turn off that I have with opera. Still, I'll be sticking with FF as my main browser.

Strangely since I restarted after the update, my mac mail has been crashing a lot and blaming it on growl. I've had to disable it for the time being. Has anyone else had any similar problems?

travelin cat




msg:3857713
 7:40 pm on Feb 25, 2009 (gmt 0)

gdjones83,

There have been a lot of reported problems in this Safari beta if you have any plug-ins for Apple Mail.

You will probably have to ditch the beta if those plug-ins are important to you.

gdjones83




msg:3858268
 3:50 pm on Feb 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

interesting, i'll probably give apple a few days to fix the bugs and if they still haven't then I'll uninstall the beta. Like I say, Firefox is my main browser anyway so the latest safari (however sleek and well integrated into os x) isn't too important to me.

gdjones83




msg:3858598
 8:26 pm on Feb 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'll tell you what though after playing around with it I think its a really good browser, haven't found any major problems at all. If only there was a version of firefox's web development toolbar available as that would be a real clincher.
I'd also like to be able to move the bookmarks and top sites buttons from the bookmark bar to the address bar, presently they seem to be stuck.

travelin cat




msg:3858633
 9:09 pm on Feb 26, 2009 (gmt 0)

I'm not one for jumping in to beta software, so I'll be holding off on the "upgrade" as will many others I'm sure.

If you want to check out some of the features, without downloading it, Apple has posted 150 of them here [apple.com].

Of special note are the Developer Tools about half way down the page.

oasisfan




msg:3859129
 1:15 pm on Feb 27, 2009 (gmt 0)

I love it. A real innovation in browser design. The cover flow history is brilliant. How often have you been reading a page but just can not get back to find it. I have never been able to work out IE or Firefox histories though.

It is so so quick and its been benchmarked at 6 x faster than internet explorer (do an internet search)

One annoyance is that in forums (such as this one) its very easy to accidently highlight all the text in the reply box and the next thing its gone and never to be retrieved again-be warned - if the text highlights blue click in the box again to cancel.

Also no google page rank either.

This 43 message thread spans 2 pages: 43 ( [1] 2 > >
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