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Does a site that's penalized by PENGUIN still pass pagerank?
jk3210




msg:4524546
 4:14 pm on Dec 3, 2012 (gmt 0)

Does a site that's penalized by PENGUIN still pass pagerank?

 

alexgarrido




msg:4524774
 6:05 am on Dec 4, 2012 (gmt 0)

According to several sources, no. A deindexed site should not pass rank to another site (usually deindexed penalties mean that the site is spammy and will "hurt" sites it links to).

However, it can pass some rank and power indirectly. For instance some web crawling services use other search engines to index sites in their database. Maybe google hates you but you manage to get other se to love you and the fact that you rank so well in another search engine can pick up with Google.

I have optimized several sites for Bing and (google analytics installed of course) have seen that google actually starts giving you better rankings if they see you get "genuine" traffic from other search engines.

... They say that analytics data is only used to have transparency... Well, in my opinion no. Google analytics is the biggest spy on the web and big g uses this information constantly.

martinibuster




msg:4524781
 6:32 am on Dec 4, 2012 (gmt 0)

However, it can pass some rank and power indirectly.


PageRank can only be passed directly from one site to another. At it's core, a lot of PageRank is related to a citation. A citation is when a resource is publicly referenced. For example, if ten people are in a room and person X is asked by person Y who cooked the Scungilli, the only way to identify that person is to point/nod/look at that person. You can't indirectly gesture to a person. The same is true with citations.

There are other things in play related to user intention that can seem to override links, anchor text, on page factors. But that's an entirely different discussion but it wouldn't surprise me if that's what is throwing off your sources of information and causing them to chase down red herrings.

...and the fact that you rank so well in another search engine can pick up with Google.


Afaik, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it has only been the case that Microsoft has been caught poaching/copying Google's SERPs and not the other way around.

...and big g uses this information constantly.


The Google Analytics data is supposed to be used only in aggregate. Google can obtain specific site data from other sources apart from Analytics.

According to several sources, no.


Those kinds of "studies" make great link bait but don't ever help anyone rank and are frequently debunked. There is another layer of algorithm being imposed on the SERPs related to user intent, which can cause your sources of information to chase red herrings. People who make those kinds of unscientific link bait statements are regularly proven wrong, their methodologies are often shown to be unscientific or miscalculated through a shaky grasp of math or statistics.

Those kinds of people generally have a history of being wrong about a great many things, from what link selling businesses they publicly endorsed (and now do not endorse), to self-serving statements about Google's ability to spot certain kinds of link manipulations. Study their background, what their positions used to be about certain issues related to link building and how they changed their tune only when it became glaringly obvious. Most of those kinds of people have a history of being wrong, a history of doing what was expedient at the moment. No need to expect them to be correct now. Their history of getting it wrong is why those kinds of people are often in the business of selling tools. It's profitable to sell shovels to would-be gold diggers.

jk3210




msg:4525070
 8:03 pm on Dec 4, 2012 (gmt 0)

A deindexed site should not pass rank...


True, but are Penguinized sites deindexed? I thought Penguin was just a hit to a site's rankings.

superbitz




msg:4525338
 2:54 pm on Dec 5, 2012 (gmt 0)

Penguinized sites are NOT deindexed. They suffer an algorithmic hit that drops them in the rankings. They still rank (just not as well and for as many keywords), and they still pass PageRank

If your site was suddenly deindexed, it most likely was not Penguin.

ZydoSEO




msg:4525443
 7:56 pm on Dec 5, 2012 (gmt 0)

Superbitz is right... Sites hit by Penguin are not deindexed.

CainIV




msg:4526830
 6:18 am on Dec 11, 2012 (gmt 0)

My answer would be very little.

They certainly would pass little weight / trust or authority, which are the bigger metrics you are chasing when building links.

nickstamoulis




msg:4540927
 2:46 pm on Jan 31, 2013 (gmt 0)

Stop worrying about PageRank! Google even says "PageRank is no longer—if it ever was—the be-all and end-all of ranking.) (http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2011/06/beyond-pagerank-graduating-to.html). Don't worry about PaqeRank and worry about the quality of the site you are looking to get a link from. If it got hit by Penguin it's got more problems to fix than whether or not it's passing Pagerank.

jk3210




msg:4540963
 3:52 pm on Jan 31, 2013 (gmt 0)

Pagerank is determined by links, which means disregarding Pagerank and the links which produce it would be a very foolish plan.

Additionally, no one here is "worried" about Pagerank. We are discussing a question concerning how Pagerank is passed.

tightbelt




msg:4547884
 3:37 pm on Feb 22, 2013 (gmt 0)

Penalized sites have lost the trust that search engines placed in them. I think the outoging links on penguinized sites would also be untrusted and pass less value.

Andy Langton




msg:4547885
 3:45 pm on Feb 22, 2013 (gmt 0)

For a direct answer to the question, yes, sites affected by Penguin and Panda can still pass link value. My assessment is that in many cases this ability is severely reduced, but is still present depending on particular circumstances of the link. Indeed, most sites suffering from Panda/Penguin still rank for some things anyway.

As an aside, not being able to pass benefit does not equal not being able to rank, nor does it equal passing 'negative' value. All of those things can occur together or in isolation and are not necessarily related at all.

jakebohall




msg:4576509
 1:18 pm on May 22, 2013 (gmt 0)

It would be important to know whether the site has had a sitewide penalty or page/keyword specific penalty.

In many cases of Penguin, there is only an algorithmic penalty affecting specific keywords and pages, in which case I would assume that those pages would be less trustworthy and thereby pass less "juice" through their links. In these instances, I would think links from unpenalized pages would be unaffected.

If the site has seen a sitewide penalty, it is likely that all links coming from that site would be devalued.

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