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Link Development Forum

This 48 message thread spans 2 pages: 48 ( [1] 2 > >     
Where do you want your link?
adamnichols45




msg:3803704
 8:32 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

if you have the final say on where you have your link on an outside website where would you choose?

Footer?
links page?
every page?
menu?
5 pages?
10 pages?

I think you get where im going with this now! Maybe not all the sites are going to be relevant sites...

what are your thoughts? ...

 

martinibuster




msg:3803706
 8:34 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

If I had my final say I'd request it from within a relevant page of content.

jdMorgan




msg:3803716
 8:42 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

In-context in the first paragraph of on-page text for me, thanks. :)

Second choice: Last paragraph.

If the linking site isn't relevant, I'd be unlikely to bother asking for a link: There are too many better opportunities out there, and I probably just wouldn't get around to asking.

Jim

pageoneresults




msg:3803718
 8:47 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

If I had my final say I'd request it from within a relevant page of content.

In-context in the first paragraph of on-page text for me, thanks.

Add those two together and that would be the ultimate scenario for me.

Second best option?

Anywhere on that same page as long as it is surrounded by relevant content. I'd even go for an image (hot linked of course) being included in that same content. The more elements the merrier. As long as they are relevant.

Yes, from multiple pages but for different topics. If the site has a large breadth, 5 or 10 pages is more than adequate to fuel a fire somewhere and have visitors trying to stomp it out! ;)

martinibuster




msg:3803719
 8:52 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

Ok, now here's where the topic becomes spooky. :)

  • Would you want that link to be the only outbound on the page?
  • If you opt for another outbound, how many and to who?
  • Would your link be the first outbound on the page or would you randomize its location?

pageoneresults




msg:3803730
 9:01 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

Would you want that link to be the only outbound on the page?

No. Without the other relevant outbounds, it doesn't have the same amount of umph.

If you opt for another outbound, how many and to who?

A select few usually of equal and/or higher value. Maybe not. ;)

Would your link be the first outbound on the page or would you randomize its location?

First outbound in main content? That's an option and it all depends on the structure of that opening content.

Is this a quiz?

Footer?
Only if the footer is specific to a particular section and is not sitewide.

Links Page?
Never

Every Page?
Never

Menu?
Only if the menu is specific to a particular section and is not sitewide.

5 Pages?
Only if they are unique pages and each of my links differs. I'd prefer not to have the repetition.

10 Pages?
Same applies here.

martinibuster




msg:3803737
 9:10 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

Footer?
Never.

Links Page?
Never

Every Page?
Depends on the context.

Menu?
Never. The user expects a menu to help them navigate to another part of the site, not to a different site. This kind of link makes me uncomfortable because there's something a little sneaky about it because the anchor is usually a keyword phrase, not the Site URL.

5 Pages?
Do outbounds on five or ten pages exist in the wild?

10 Pages?
See above.

wheel




msg:3803753
 9:23 pm on Dec 9, 2008 (gmt 0)

Footer? Nope.

Links Page? Sure, if it's an actual authority site with an authority links page. In other words, if the links page isn't a links page, but a list of industry resources.

Every page? I've got one like that now. It makes me nervous. But I'll live with it.

Menu? Wow. Never thought of that. I'd probably say no.

Multiple pages? Nope, as MB says, seems unnatural.

Incontent and on topic. I don't care if there are other outbounds on the page as long as they're quality.

Beyond that I really don't care. Perhaps it makes a difference but I don't focus on minutea like that. I want it random and mixed up. Top of page, bottom of page, other links, no other links, whatever. I want lots of and a mix of everything. I want to be #1 no matter which dials Google is spinning today or which factors in the backlink profile they look at.

incrediblehelp




msg:3803960
 3:15 am on Dec 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

Home page around relevant content, near the top of the page (in the code).

ken_b




msg:3803974
 3:21 am on Dec 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

I want links on relevant sites and pages that will CONSISTENTLY, over time, send high quality targeted traffic to my site.

martinibuster




msg:3804063
 8:13 am on Dec 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

>>>pages that will CONSISTENTLY, over time, send high quality targeted traffic to my site.

That's a good point. Diversifying traffic sources is important. I review my referrer stats daily and take note of what sites are sending traffic. The interesting thing about that traffic is the best ones had nothing to do with me. I'm not advocating quality content as the sole means of generating links, but dang, it sure works well.

adamnichols45




msg:3804442
 5:47 pm on Dec 10, 2008 (gmt 0)

some brilliant replys. Certainly food for thought there.

Interesting point about the footer!

Argentdreamer




msg:3805215
 3:43 pm on Dec 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

If I had my final say I'd request it from within a relevant page of content.

^--- All the way.

directwheels




msg:3805250
 4:30 pm on Dec 11, 2008 (gmt 0)

the answer depends the quality and topic of the site I am getting the link from.

If I can get any links from the NY Times that I want, it might be a do-no-wrong situation. In that case, I would take a prominent sitewide link on their nav to my home page. Then, find deeper pages on their site that are relevant to my 2nd tier pages and get in content links from there.

If I am getting links from a medium quality, but very relevant site, I would take a home page link, close to or in the content, to my home page.

If I am getting a link from Joe's blog, which has a very broad and general topic, I would do a Google search for

site:www.domain.com widget

then perhaps take an in content link from one of the top pages that come up.

johnnie




msg:3805761
 3:28 am on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

In-content please

JS_Harris




msg:3805792
 4:35 am on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

Dear Santa: A link inside the 1st paragraph of a page talking about my site directly, or my sites topic at a minimum, using my niche keyword please.

One catch, the link must be placed in an article FRESHLY PUBLISHED meaning it has to be there from the first time the page is ever seen.

Oh and if it's not too much trouble, make sure the page is fresh and unique, k-thx oh and before you go... link to that page from other important pages on your site so it doesn't just fade away into the bowels of pagination...

Merry Christmas!

directwheels




msg:3805794
 4:40 am on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

One catch, the link must be placed in an article FRESHLY PUBLISHED meaning it has to be there from the first time the page is ever seen.

has anyone does any test to see if this really makes a difference?

grelmar




msg:3805805
 5:03 am on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

Dear Santa: A link inside the 1st paragraph of a page talking about my site directly, or my sites topic at a minimum, using my niche keyword please.

Smart man. Fit's nicely with Google's heat map [google.com]. Notice where the bright orange box is. Yup, right where that golden first paragraph of real content is.

I've had a copy of that map on the wall beside my desk for years. Really helps with design, and not just ads. Gives you a really good sense of where people's eyes lock onto on a page.

edit add:

Actually, for those who haven't already explored them, here's the direct links to Google's heat map pages for three typical scenarios:

General: https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=17954

Forums: https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=43868

Blogs: https://www.google.com/adsense/support/bin/answer.py?answer=43869

JS_Harris




msg:3805816
 5:51 am on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

directwheels

In my opinion a link that exists from the moment a page is created receives immediate benefits, such as from services like Technorati who only ever give authority on the first visit, as well as improved long term value because it's clearly not purchased later on from the open link market.

It amazes me that people still assume that search engines can't spot a new link and figure out that "hey, this site gets too many new links from established pages with PR, red flag!".

Also, nobody really knows if links "mature" much like pages do. If they do then it's possible that a page which has "stopped growing" at PR4 no longer helps new links mature. Then again... this is just one of the questions I've asked myself over the years, I hope this last paragraph didn't make a Google engineer who knows the answer giggle too hard.

carguy84




msg:3805892
 8:15 am on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for not wanting a site wide link in another site's navigation?

If the site has traffic going to it, why would you not want the exposure?

martinibuster




msg:3805971
 10:03 am on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

>>>site wide link in another site's navigation?

Depends on your level of risk aversion. I don't know if an algo can catch it and devalue it, however a thorough hand check might.

The way I see it there are two hoops to jump through. The algo and a hand check. The more successful you are the more likely your site may come under scrutiny because of disgruntled webmasters reporting the site. It's debatable what the odds are of getting caught in a hand check, but the risk, however small, remains. So how green or red the light is for obtaining a link from a sitewide menu should depend on the level of risk you're willing to assume. Just my opinion.

So what can happen if it's discovered in a hand check? Will they penalize the site giving the link by stopping it from passing PR and allowing your site to rank "where it should be ranking" or will they just go after your site and kick it out?

LostOne




msg:3806110
 1:47 pm on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

Great stuff...not your mundane run of the mill link development.

I've been seeking links through creating sites for folks that don't have the resources or the money at the present. The first one is 12 pages and I've scattered some unique content that deals mainly with their local market and the business they are in(same business as I). They really have no competition except for image based text websites.

I suppose ya'll will say it "depends on the risk you want to take..." I've been working on longer tail search phrase backlinks because I don't need the big terms anymore. I was planning on 3-4 text links on the site within the content about 3/4 of the way through the articles (FAQ) within a sentence.

It's not like I'll pump out 100 of these sites a month. Maybe one every two months. I'm patient enough. Sound like a plan?

Martini: Whenever I see your name I pay attention. Been following you since PubCon Orlando. Good stuff. Keep up the good work:)

dailypress




msg:3806183
 3:33 pm on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

ill take links anytime, anywhere, everywhere from everyone... ;)

directwheels




msg:3806304
 6:58 pm on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

ill take links anytime, anywhere, everywhere from everyone... ;)

please post your URL. i am sure a lot of people will want to make you regret making that statement.

dailypress




msg:3806337
 7:58 pm on Dec 12, 2008 (gmt 0)

please post your URL. i am sure a lot of people will want to make you regret making that statement.
I was kinda kidding but now you made me curious why there would be so many sick people to make me regret it. Unless you are suggesting that they would be benefiting someway or another.
+
I dont think Google or any other major search engine would penalize you by others linking habbit. If it was that easy, competitors could easily shut you down, right?

Shaddows




msg:3806518
 12:35 am on Dec 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

I've seen other members (venerable ones) suggest they could damage your site at relatively low cost without your involvement (except your authorisation to demonstrate).

But, for e.g., a sudden prominant sitewide link on another site might cause G to take notice of your pages. At which point, a more resource-intensive algo could start looking at your site, which could expose other issues.

Generally though, G publically states that the actions of third parties cannot have a detrimental impact to your site. So, case closed then :p

eltercerhombre




msg:3806555
 2:35 am on Dec 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

Links?

- From a site that ranks above me for my keywords/theme.
- If the above is true, on a page that sends traffic.
- On the first or last paragraph but inside the content, better if both.
- On a page that doesn't get buried after a few months. I mean, not on a blog, news, or similar, but in a content page that is always part of the main content of the site and is always relevant, ever green.
- As near as possible, in term of clicks, from the homepage.

I could ask for more, but the above is good enough.

And:

> Footer?
- Never
> links page?
- If there's no other option...
> every page?
- Where? Why? Does it make sense?
> menu?
- Only from a highly relevant partner site (probably a site of mine), and if it's clear enough where the user is going to and it's usefull enough for them.
> 5 pages?
- Does it make sense to visitors? Does it provide useful info to them and traffic to me?
> 10 pages?
- See above

Edit to add: If the link sends big related traffic that converts, I do not care too much where it is.

martinibuster




msg:3806605
 3:48 am on Dec 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

>>>a lot of people will want to make you regret making that statement.

What's to regret? In the scrapers heyday a few years ago I used to have tens of thousands of scrapers linking to me. Never hurt me one bit.

>>>a sudden prominant sitewide link on another site might cause G to take notice of your pages.

Nah. Sitewides happen all the time in the blogworld. It's a natural occurrence. There'd be collateral damage galore if Google did that.

tootricky




msg:3806723
 10:28 am on Dec 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning for not wanting a site wide link in another site's navigation?

If the site has traffic going to it, why would you not want the exposure?

.....Because SEOs like me would report you for having sitewide text link ad ;) (the good reporting it does... hmmmmph)

In essence don't go out of your way to make your link look like you bought it (even if you did, tut tut).

Best spot in my opinion is the first paragraph of the page with optimised anchor text, juicy title attribute and link to a relevant page on my site (a non homepage page if relevant)

tootricky




msg:3806727
 10:42 am on Dec 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

edit: sorry for the double post, I wasn't aware I was answering in the same thread. :(


Also, nobody really knows if links "mature" much like pages do. If they do then it's possible that a page which has "stopped growing" at PR4 no longer helps new links mature. Then again... this is just one of the questions I've asked myself over the years, I hope this last paragraph didn't make a Google engineer who knows the answer giggle too hard.

It's funny you should mention this. I performed a recent experiment about just this thing: I happened to discover that a certain article submission site has an extremely poor rating structure that can be very easily "skewed" shall we say, with a bit of tinkering. High ranking articles get shown on a second tier page of PR 4, so a pretty important page if you can get a link off there. I managed to get an article onto this page and pointed the link at a site with a specific keyword that had been very stable in its position in the rankings for several months. Over the weekend the site rose 6 positions to #2 in the ranking for its keyword. The link is still there and the ranking is stable at #2.

To confirm the effect I performed the same test on a different site that was struggling to break into the 10 for its main keyword and the results were similar: the value of the link was passed in full (in my opinion) and the site has risen to number #9 and is again, stable there.

I will let the test run for a couple of months before I remove the links and report the flaw to the webmaster, but it seems to me that the age of the page had very little detrimental effect on the value I would expect from the links.

[edited by: tootricky at 10:45 am (utc) on Dec. 13, 2008]

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