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This 101 message thread spans 4 pages: 101 ( [1] 2 3 4 > >     
Why cant we sell links, its just another form of advertising
will google really ban a site or filter if one sell links
zeus




msg:3425602
 5:06 pm on Aug 18, 2007 (gmt 0)

I dont get it why cant we sell links to other sites, do we really get filtered or baned by google (internet) can it really be that they should tell us what to do.

 

jakegotmail




msg:3425730
 9:29 pm on Aug 18, 2007 (gmt 0)

don't be an idiot about it. ie posting pharm's, debt relief, poker, security link's up and down your side bars you will be fine...

FUD anyone?

JohnRoy




msg:3425904
 6:49 am on Aug 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

> can it really be that they should tell us what to do.

No. They have no right whatsoever to tell us what to do. We may do what we want, when we want, and how we want.

If we want to do what we want, they should not tell what and how and when to do or don't do it.

In short: They should not tell us what to do.

By the way,
can it really be that WE should tell Google what to do?

Hope it's understandable. We may do what we want. And so does Google (or any other search engine).
If they say they will consider paid links _not_ as they consider natural links, they may say and do so freely.

And.. It can really be so.

Habtom




msg:3425908
 6:57 am on Aug 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

JohnRoy, I couldn't agree more.

If you revise your post one more time, it could be a good poem ;)

Hab

Matt Probert




msg:3425929
 8:17 am on Aug 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

I dont get it why cant we sell links to other sites, do we really get filtered or baned by google (internet) can it really be that they should tell us what to do.

You can do what you like. Google, despite the naive imaginations of some delusional fools, is not the whole Internet, it is just a single company exploiting an aspect of the Internet to make vast amounts of money.

The only people with any sway over your site are your readers. If your readers are happy with paid links, then include them.

Matt

callivert




msg:3425988
 10:25 am on Aug 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

Why do you believe Google will ban you from their index for selling links.
Can you link to a Google source, or any reputable source, that claims this is the case? I've never heard of it.

zeus




msg:3426013
 11:06 am on Aug 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hmm, well the replys I expected, its a shame google rules the internet, but thats another topic.

I just would love to have a few banners and maybe some text links paid for on our site.

callivert




msg:3426056
 1:22 pm on Aug 19, 2007 (gmt 0)

Hmm, well the replys I expected

I'll take that as a "no."
You don't have any evidence that Google bans sites for selling links. Right?

JohnRoy




msg:3426490
 4:07 am on Aug 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

> You don't have any evidence that Google bans sites for selling links. Right?

Right.

But we do have evidence that Google says stop being part of link schemes. That includes buying or selling links.

Will they ban you if you don't follow their rule?
They didn't say so.

But they do say that this "can negatively impact your site's ranking in search results"

[google.com...]

[edited by: encyclo at 8:51 pm (utc) on Aug. 26, 2007]
[edit reason] fixed link [/edit]

callivert




msg:3426495
 4:20 am on Aug 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

Will they ban you if you don't follow their rule?

I think these days, when we talk about a Google ban, it can mean anything from a drop in SERPS (-30 penalty, -950 penalty) to being completely de-indexed.
If Google figures out that you sell links, then the worst that will happen is your links won't pass PageRank to other sites. That's not a ban. It's not even a penalty.
If selling links got you banned, then a company like Text Link Ads couldn't exist.

JohnRoy




msg:3426496
 4:30 am on Aug 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

> a company like Text Link Ads couldn't exist.

Couldn't exist [on Google serps].

They do exist on Google Ads.

callivert




msg:3426565
 6:35 am on Aug 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

the question in the original post is "will Google really ban a site or filter if one sell links?"
the answer is no.
Link schemes are more than just selling links, I don't think that's relevant here.

jakegotmail




msg:3426905
 3:01 pm on Aug 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

But we do have evidence that Google says stop being part of link schemes. That includes buying or selling links.

Thats a far stretch imho.

Can you link this so called evidence?

pageoneresults




msg:3426912
 3:06 pm on Aug 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

You don't have any evidence that Google bans sites for selling links. Right?

No, but there is evidence that some sites selling links may not pass PR value. That would be the easiest thing for Google to do algorithmically and it would leave most with little clue as to what was really going on. TBPR shows PR6 yet there doesn't seem to be any PR passing to the linked destination?

zeus




msg:3427291
 8:58 pm on Aug 20, 2007 (gmt 0)

callivert - I think the evidence is that google in a stasi way tell us to report if we see some selling links, that can only mean they dont like it.

A bane i call everything that can happen to a site which is not natural.

JohnRoy




msg:3428144
 6:22 pm on Aug 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Can you link this so called evidence?

jakegotmail:

The [ URL ] (not a live link) is at end of message

[webmasterworld.com...]

JohnRoy




msg:3428384
 11:16 pm on Aug 21, 2007 (gmt 0)

Link schemes are more than just selling links, I don't think that's relevant here.

You're correct. It's more than just selling links. But Selling links is part of link schemes!

From Google webmaster help center:

Examples of Link Schemes [google.com] can include:

  • Links intended to manipulate PageRank
  • Links to web spammers or bad neighborhoods on the web
  • Excessive reciprocal links or excessive link exchanging ("Link to me and I'll link to you.")
  • Buying or selling links

    BTW: I don't know the difference between "Reciprocal links" and "Link exchanging"

  • tmprod




    msg:3429620
     5:12 am on Aug 23, 2007 (gmt 0)

    Evidence for Google selling links?

    Well, it all depends on what you consider "selling.?"

    If you sign up for Google checkout there is a chance that they could profile you with a case study - they encourage that you "share your experience," and if they select you they will feature you- like they did with a nice, hearty PR7 link with your choice of anchor text, to any specified internal product page.

    Or......

    If you guy and use their Enterprise server you would also get the same: a nice fat big PR8 or PR7 permanent link to your site.

    Is that a paid link?

    Do a search on the session at SES San Jose 2007 for Tuesday afternoon. That was a heated discussion with the panel members and audience.

    Can you buy the keywords "Buy Links" or "Sell Links" on AdWords for $6-$13 a click. Yes you can. Is that paid advertising? Sure it is. IS that paid traffic? Yep. IS that a violation of their TOS too?

    TBD...........

    BLAH. It's all a farse IMO.

    [edited by: jatar_k at 5:14 pm (utc) on Aug. 29, 2007]
    [edit reason] no urls thanks [/edit]

    JS_Harris




    msg:3432695
     8:43 pm on Aug 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

    Callivert, read Matt Cutts blog, he works on googles spam team and he provides examples of sites he's personaly cut from google completely for things like link selling. YES, there is evidence and he even gives screenshots as fair warning to others.

    About buying and selling links through a service. The major problem is that the service creates an internet map you want no part of. If you find a site you like and buy a link the odds are an unsavory site will have done so too, often on the same page. Two clicks between you to scuzzy content is a red flag.

    I don't recommend buying links for pure link anchor text value at all. I would however use a service like text link ads to sell sponsored links but only with the automatic approval feature disabled. I'd want to review and control which relevant sites I link to, there are a few great sites out there on any subject still.

    Theres no need for paranoia, just be sure you can vouch for the quality of the sites you link to. You might need to explain it in a re-inclusion request someday.

    JS_Harris




    msg:3432697
     8:55 pm on Aug 26, 2007 (gmt 0)

    Also, pageoneresults. Excellent comment "there is evidence that some sites selling links may not pass PR value."

    A popular blogger, John Chow (erase his name if its against tos to mention him), just got completely dropped from google results for even his own name for selling 100+ batches of links. He had ranked number one on extremely profitable keywords before. His site continues to be PR6, his traffic was from 5000+ RSS feeds and direct linking from other blogs so he hasn't lost any traffic but... he's not passing any PR for sure.

    It remains to be seen if he is passing PR internaly now, ie between his own pages, it's going to be interesting to see what happens to the PR6 in the next update. He's another to watch to see what link selling can do. People bought $400 reviews from him, what will happen to them?

    We've got some answers coming with the next update I think.

    CainIV




    msg:3433495
     6:15 pm on Aug 27, 2007 (gmt 0)

    Just like pageoneresults said its likely that Google simply considers discounting the value of the link, depending on a number of factors. That way, they are providing the same parallel as adding nofollow to those types of links, information they have mentioned before.

    To boot, they don't have to deal with penalities or non penalties if they simply remove the ranking value.

    Now, as for the question of how accurate they can be when making these types of judgements, that is for you to decide.

    Matt Probert




    msg:3433547
     7:15 pm on Aug 27, 2007 (gmt 0)

    https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/paidlinks?hl=en

    "Google uses a number of methods to detect paid links, including algorithmic techniques. We also welcome information from our users. If you know of a site that buys or sells links, please tell us by filling out the fields below. We'll investigate your submissions, and we'll use your data to improve our algorithmic detection of paid links."

    I think that says it all!

    Matt

    europeforvisitors




    msg:3435600
     4:05 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

    I dont get it why cant we sell links to other sites, do we really get filtered or baned by google (internet) can it really be that they should tell us what to do.

    Who said you can't sell text links for advertising purposes? Of course you can. Google isn't stopping you. Matt Cutts, head of Google's antispam team, has written:

    'What if a site wants to buy links purely for visitor click traffic, to build buzz, or to support another site? In that situation, I would use the rel=”nofollow” attribute. The nofollow tag allows a site to add a link that abstains from being an editorial vote.'

    So go ahead and sell advertising links. But if you want free traffic from Google, have the common sense to respect Google's guidelines on how to implement those links.

    rstein68




    msg:3435605
     4:08 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

    Google has made it clear they will go after *any* scheme used to artificially increase rankings in its bajillion dollar algo.

    defanjos




    msg:3435627
     4:27 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

    >>The nofollow tag allows a site to add a link that abstains from being an editorial vote

    What about if you really think the advertiser is a very good resource for your visitors and you want to give them a "vote", but, you also want to get paid, because after all, you are a business?

    The original nofollow intent was ok, the latter is retarded.

    europeforvisitors




    msg:3435659
     4:50 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

    Again, it's your choice. You're free to make your own linking decisions, and Google is free to make its own linking decisions. Everybody wins.

    awall19




    msg:3435665
     4:55 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

    > Google has made it clear they will go after *any* scheme used to artificially increase rankings in its bajillion dollar algo.

    So clear in fact that they have to keep reminding us again, and again, and again, and...

    They just keep going like the Energizer Bunny.

    You don't see them doing that with stuffing meta tags do you? Makes you appreciate how effective paid links must be if they have to keep droning on about them.

    Go60Guy




    msg:3435697
     5:25 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

    Makes you appreciate how effective paid links must be if they have to keep droning on about them.

    And, it also would seem to tell you that they have yet to perfect and effective means of bot based detection. At least, that's my guess.

    iblaine




    msg:3435707
     5:31 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

    Last time I checked it wasn't against the law to sell links...and damn Google for wanting to protect their algo against people trying to artificially manipulate it. There's always MSN - they don't seem to care much.

    FattyB




    msg:3435715
     5:41 pm on Aug 29, 2007 (gmt 0)

    I think Google is entitled to attempt to protect their means of working out relevant results.

    But there is also a slippery slope with the tail wagging the dog, especially when in a de facto monopoly position...and especially again in places like the UK where Google have almost total dominance.

    So watch what you do with links for now sounds reasonable but the next request might not be.

    Still I have faith the busy bodies at the EU will get their oar stuck in if things get too much :-)

    This 101 message thread spans 4 pages: 101 ( [1] 2 3 4 > >
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