| 2:39 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
jack im curious your thoughts on this.
Alot of times we might have links on a site for several years and our competitors will come behind us and buy links on the site as well. Do you think there is a factor there in place where links that were there first might hold alot more weight then perse a site that comes along 2 years later and obtains links on that site.
Or is it more of the case of once theres a ton of competitor links on a site then there is no value passed to any of the links, since it looks obv. the site owner is selling links.
| 2:40 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
"I spend between $5,000 - $10,000 monthly on links"
Is it worth spending this much for links only?
Does it help your site in Google rankings?
| 2:51 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
We spend about the same Rose and I can say it really depends on your sector. Not all sectors warrant having to spend that much, nor do all sectors require buying links. Extremely competitive ecommerce sites alot of times have to go that route in order to obtain good rankings.
If you spend 100k/year on links I hope it helps your rankings ;)
| 2:54 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I hope it helps your rankings ;)
How do you obtain natural links to your site?
| 3:21 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
"how do you obtain natural links"
that my friend is a whole nother topic.
without getting into it to much...
useful and unique content pretty much sums up the best way I can think off of hand.
| 5:17 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Well jakegotmail, it's interesting that you pose this question.
I recently had just this problem - idiot webmasters thinking they could simply copy my linking strategy by purchasing links on exactly the same sites that carried my links.
So I hired someone to contact the webmaster of EVERY single site with proof that two competitors were copying my link strategy.
All but two sites then removed the competing links. The remaining two needed a little financial coercion but they saw the economics of the situation ;)
F_Rose, my site is a year old and ranks higher than sites that are much older, much bigger, much better known, and much more relevant for certain keywords ...
Make of that what you will.
| 5:37 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
" less than 10 outbound links on the homepage"
Do you check that manually? Do you include Google Adsense?
| 11:57 pm on Nov 15, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I don't spend anything like the amounts spent here on link buying. At least not yet.
I just dabble, and so far my experiences have been mixed. The following is true in my limited experience (and may not be true tomorrow!):
1. Domain age is very important
2. PR is very important (but if the domain is old, it'll probably have PR anyway). Check PR on the page where your link will appear.
3. Check if the search engines have recent cached copies of the page where your link is going to appear. If cached copies are old, look elsewhere.
4. Ensure the page is relevant to your site.
5. If there are other link buyers, ensure they are very relevant to your site.
6. Ensure no "nofollow" attribute on existing external links.
7. Ensure few other external links
8. A made-for-Adsense page is probably not worth bothering about. Look for serious content. Try to link to yourself from content in a paragraph.
9. Anonymity in the transaction.
10. Anonymity in the transaction.
Did I mention the transaction should be anonymous? Buyer and seller should remain unknown to anyone not involved in the transaction. If identifying the seller is easy, avoid.
I'm sure there are more. Did I mention anonymity?
| 2:46 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Would you mind going further into explaining this:
"Did I mention the transaction should be anonymous? Buyer and seller should remain unknown to anyone not involved in the transaction. If identifying the seller is easy, avoid."
Is this more in regards to link brokerage systems, where outside sources could see the seller?
| 3:49 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Jake, I think elguiri said anonymity because of exacly that, the identification and penalization of link brokarege firms.
We know Google has either cut the value of links on sites participating in these organizations or even penalised them.
If the link brokarage firm you are dealing with is small and prabably not going to be identified, is it worth the risk that it might? IMHO I would have to agree with elguiri and say no, it is better to buy links from sites that don't advertise they sell links.
| 4:06 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
>>if you or anyone on these boards knows everything about SEO then you probably wouldnt even read these boards. You would be so filthy rich b/c you dominate the search engines and wouldn't need to learn anything else.
Heh, I am and I do, but it's rather foolish to think there is nothing more to learn from other people.
>>I partake in one facet of the game (1 piece of the 1 million piece puzzle), day in and day out and can comment rather accurately b/c I have seen great success in what I do. Just b/c I didnt know the only location of a robots.txt for a site doesnt mean I cannot voice my opinion to try and help others on BUYING LINKS
Well, one good reason is that if you can't check robots.txt you won't know if you are being double-slyed by the site owner. What if he was selling you a link on a new page and promised it would be indexed with PR soon and he'd put it in a non-index folder on robots.txt? How about the other commands in the meta? Robots noindex, nofollow. Do you check those? How about cloaking the robots.txt file or the page carrying the link so google sees a different version? Or what about fake pagerank created by cloaking a 301 to google? There are many things to consider, and dishing out advice without knowing all the facts might mislead some beginners.
To answer another question above about the google link command's validity, search for "buy viagra" and find a spam result. Check the backlinks. Most likely you'll see none on Google. Why is google ranking the page if the link command shows no links? The simple answer is there are thousands of links but Google's command is out of date, and even if you wait for the link update they'll show you total pants results.
| 4:47 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Are we coming to the conclusion to avoid link brokers?
Just try to get your links through contacting site owners direct?
[edited by: F_Rose at 4:49 pm (utc) on Nov. 16, 2006]
| 5:30 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Something to add that hasnt been reiterated enough are sites with massive amnts of UNIQUE content. Relevant sites with large depositories of content are the kind of sites to shoot for. After all content is king.
F Rose: Yes. Very much so. Contact site owners personally you will see better results like many have said.
OldDog: Thank you for your input but I have not misled anyone. My comments were made in facets of the industry that I deal with every single day.
Excuse me for asking a question, I already knew the answer tbo but wanted to incite some q & a's. After all what would we learn if users didn't ask questions.
I normally wouldn't answer someone like yourself but to tell someone not to discuss on a discussion board is appalling. The fact is no one knows everything, its impossible. We all speculate about how to reach #1.
| 6:02 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
"Contact site owners personally you will see better results like many have said."
I don't know why but just don't have any luck in doing that..
What should I write in the e-mail when contacting a site owner?
How should I propose it?
What will get the site owner excited over such a type of proposal?
So far whoever I have contacted I got no response.
| 6:14 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Copy of my standard email I send to folks when inquiring:
We would like to inquire about possibly advertising on your site. What we would like to do is place text links on different pages on your site that would link to our pages.
Would you be open to some kind of arrangement? How much would that cost?
Keep it short and simple and tell them you have $$.
People who write you an essay and walls of text are more likely to get deleted. Also my success rate is pretty low. Might send out 20 and only get 2-5 responses. Once again, depends on your industry and the type of site your trying to contact. Hope this helps.
| 6:17 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Is e-mailing the only way you ask for links?
| 6:25 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Yes. It gets the job done.
| 6:41 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
So you must be sending out thousand of e-mails. Right?
| 6:57 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
By no means. Takes patience like anything. I might send out like 30-40 emails when I am really looking to push a new product/page.
Sending out 1000s would just be a mess. The more personal attention you can give to each deal, the better. Gives you time to negotiate and assess the value of the deal.
Getting spammed with replys wouldnt be good. (which I imagine is what would happen if I sent out 1000 emails in a given week)
| 11:48 pm on Nov 16, 2006 (gmt 0)|
and even better then general link swaping forums are industry specific forums.
Most industries have forums for webmasters to chat. These industry specific forums can be a gold mine for link swaping.
| 12:20 am on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Do not buy links period. How many times does a site need to get penalized before people get it.
Google gudielines are clear and if you keep doing it long enough you will get seriously burned. I have a client who was penalized for 6 months almost went out of business. They were acting on the advice of their previous seo company and using links from the services mentioned her.
| 2:14 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)|
How do you obtain links for your clients other than buying links?
| 2:23 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Its actually pretty hard to get penalized for buying links. Think about it. Anybody could go out and point a bunch of links to their competitors and screw them over, it just doesnt work that way (thank god).
Its the people who SELL links that might get their site penalized in the serps.
Nothing wrong with advertising your links on other sites.
They do have significant higher click thrus then traditional banner ads.
| 5:06 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)|
How much should I offer for a link?
| 5:19 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)|
That is like asking how much do you pay a worker. The answer is it totally depends.
And don't go measuring everything by page rank; that is not too acurate.
Things that will influence a price:
1- The more inbound links the site has, the more valuable the link
2- The less outbound links a site has, the more valuable the link
3- The more competition and higher the number of searches for the main phrases a site ranks for, the more valuable the link.
4- The value of a link in your industry (not all industries are worth the same, some have higher client value, or high demand/suply jacking up the prize)
5- The higher the google toolbar PR of the site, the more valuable the link.
6- The more traffic a site has (imposible to determine from the outside, but if you should have a good grasp as to the main players of your industry, these guys will have loads of traffic) the more valuable the link.
and pay special attention to this one:
7- What the webmaster thinks his links are worth. This last point has to be stressed very strongly. Sometimes I see links that are under valued, but most of the time, the webmaster is asking for rediculous pricing.
| 5:20 pm on Nov 17, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Oh, and I don't offer a price, I ask what price they charge.
| 7:16 am on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)|
I'd also buy just a few to start with. Then, say after two weeks, I'd buy more, then more.
What I don't understand is why don't you try to get genuine links?
| 4:30 pm on Nov 18, 2006 (gmt 0)|
"Genuine links" seem to be getting harder and harder to achieve, particularly with spammers from India continually showering people with propositions for trading with their domain: get-lots-of-pagerank-here-faceless-directory dot org ;)
| 9:16 pm on Nov 20, 2006 (gmt 0)|
>We all speculate about how to reach #1.
Speak for yourself.
| 10:08 pm on Nov 20, 2006 (gmt 0)|
If you know how to reach #1 then please enlighten us on what to look for when buying links.
| 10:28 pm on Nov 20, 2006 (gmt 0)|
Couple thoughts & situations on purchasing links:
What works for me:
If buying to gleen their traffic:
- How easy will it be for someone else to find my link. Home page, or link from the home page is optimal.
- How many other links out on your link page. For the SEO potential: How easy can you find the page you will be linked on through the search engines.
From and Ad Space Seller to Ad Space Buyer
1. First, look to see if they offer advertising programs on their site already. Know what you are asking for. If they are actively selling text ads for $300 per month,(a much higher price than you want to offer), be realistic if making an offer.
We've gotten emails saying "I'll pay you $30 for a text link...I'm only interested in search engine /PR ranking not necessarily your visitors". Yeah, right! Why do you think they charge $35,000 for ad copy in a magazine? Only the serious will apply.
2. Quality sites selling links (usually the ones with the least amount of outbound links because they are screened) will also want you to have something valuable to offer their visitors. They want quality in return. They want to offer valuable resources, be sure you are one.
3. If the site sells ad space, don't expect a recip. link. Every inch of real estate counts to generate revenue...especially if they don't sell a physical product ( content sites).
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