| 12:44 am on Mar 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
I use Coda for OS X. It is by far the best I have used. The SVN integration is great.
| 12:50 am on Mar 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
It's Expression Web now, not Frontpage.
| 3:10 am on Mar 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
|It's Expression Web now, not Frontpage. |
I still use FrontPage mostly. Expression Web is not all that and they took away one of the most important features that I use regularly. If they would have kept that feature, I would have mothballed my FrontPage 2003. But, it works just fine and I manage multiple 1,000+ page sites with it every day.
I'm forced to use Expression Web for .NET websites and have to work without my
Ctrl + / feature. I really liked that in previous versions of FrontPage.
| 12:30 am on Mar 8, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Not knocking it, it's open about 95% of the time my computer is on. I was replying to the comment that Microsoft isn't keeping up with Frontpage.
| 7:27 pm on Mar 16, 2009 (gmt 0)|
I use Coffeecup HTML editor for a lot of my work. I'm not a fan of WYSIWYG programs, and you can turn this feature off in CC. Then of course there's good old Notepad :-)
| 1:31 am on Mar 17, 2009 (gmt 0)|
I'm become a DW purist, though notepad is never far away
| 5:21 pm on Apr 2, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Looks like this thread is getting a little stale but maybe I will get some responses. My host sent me a note saying that they are dropping front page extensions soon. Now, I code in notepad but I really appreciate using frontpage to access my sites quickly to make little changes. Much faster than going to control panel. And I don't always want to go open the site's folder and update locally and then ftp.
So is there any other appliance that can do what frontpage does without extenions?
| 12:23 am on Apr 3, 2009 (gmt 0)|
The only system I've ever used is Frontpage. I love it and I hate it. My web host too is dumping the FP extensions in July. I'm attempting to re-create everything that uses an extension with xhtml and css. I'm just learning it all and it's very time consuming. Right now I'm figuring out how the heck to write my own form. Geesh, using an authoring system made me lazy, always depending it to do the work for me. I'm learning alot writing my own code and searching online for helpful information. This place 'Webmasterworld' is one of them.
I'll be buying something new, Frontpage is just too outdated. Dreamweaver is tempting, I hear there's alot to learn and it can be difficult for some people.
| 7:29 pm on Apr 3, 2009 (gmt 0)|
|So is there any other appliance that can do what frontpage does without extenions? |
You could ask your host if they support WebDAV. If so your site appears as a folder on your PC, and you can open, edit and move files just like local ones.
| 7:25 pm on Apr 7, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Expression Web has ftp built in. It doen't use FP extensions.
Expression Web is light years ahead of FrontPage.
In fact, Expression Web2 in now the current version.
| 10:10 am on Apr 10, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Microsoft Expression Web 2 is great. Thanks Microsoft. :)
| 5:06 pm on Apr 26, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Why not check out Expression Web 2 and see for yourself the real difference between EW2 and Frontpage. And if you are concerned about "Include Page" feature, EW2 has the feature & for EW1 that is small plug-in available for free, just do a search for it.
| 9:14 am on Apr 27, 2009 (gmt 0)|
I used FP for years, before moving to EW. Recently I tried an evaluation version of DW CS4, and I've decided to switch.
For my needs DW is much better, for example:
DW has live view - a built in browser, which means I can see the effects of code changes on the fly.
Support for MySQL databases and php is built in, I can design pages to create, edit, delete pages in design view! Not good enough for deployment, but OK for 'proof of concepts'
There are hundreds of free extensions for things like php highlighting and code hints, and jquery (beware these use different versions of the base file, which can cause problems)
Design view can also display the content of php include files, very handy so see how a complete page will look.
Support for CSS is much better than EW2. Display of layouts in design mode is more robust - try designing a layout with negative margins in EW - it breaks! This is subjective, but the way styles are applied in DW is more intuitive.
Finally you can customise the display to suit how you work, for example I set up a floating bar containing the icons I use the most.
Disclaimer, this is meant to be a criticism of MS offerings. I've built many sites over the years with them, but I do think the latest version of DW is superior. Is it harder to learn for someone starting out? I don't know, it shouldn't be but the similarity of the layout to Word or Publisher might make EW appear more comfortable.
| 9:49 am on Jul 2, 2009 (gmt 0)|
As a very ignorant amateur, learning as I go along, I inherited a website using FP three years ago. Just learned how to use it when I upgraded to Office and lost FP. I tried NVu, CoffeeCup and Blue Voda, but couldn't get my old head round htp. So I used Publisher, which is SOOOO easy - literally WYSIWYG, it's just like writing a magazine oage. Why does everybody sya it is rubbish?
| 2:38 am on Jul 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
|So I used Publisher, which is SOOOO easy - literally WYSIWYG, it's just like writing a magazine oage. Why does everybody sya it is rubbish? |
Publisher is for making printed documents, not websites. It's as simple as that. What works on a printed page will not work on every screen.
| 5:42 am on Jul 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Yes, OK bill, but Publisher DOES offer web publication, though it seems to be an afterthought. And I have found that alternative text is not'seen' by a screen-reader. So can you recommend an equally easy alternative?
| 8:06 am on Jul 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
All Microsoft Office products offer some sort of Save As HTML capability, but I wouldn't suggest making websites with them either. If you're comfortable with MS software and you used FP in the past, then try out Expression Web 2 as suggested above.
| 8:23 am on Jul 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Thanks, bill, I think I shall probably do that, if it isn't too expensive.
| 8:37 am on Jul 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
It has a free trial still, so you can give it a test drive before you decide to buy.
| 8:51 am on Jul 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Hmmm, bill, I am wary. I tried several free web-builders, but after I uninstalled them I had to have Windows re-installed because they left such a clutter on my computer -at least, there WAS a clutter and I was told that uninstalling programs does that. And THAT cost me €85. I do this website voluntarily for a club, not a business, so don't want to incur such costs again.
| 10:53 am on Jul 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
look for "myuninstaller" or "revo uninstaller" both freeware ( revo can be run as portable ) ..both remove "clutter" ..and all traces of "trail ware" ..
| 12:43 pm on Jul 6, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Thanks, Leosghost, that encourages me to try NVu again, as it is free. If I have a trial of EW and I like it, I would have to find the wherewithal to buy it. But I did see a used one for sale on eBay, might stay cheap in the auction. Decisions, decisions!
| 4:55 am on Jul 7, 2009 (gmt 0)|
The code from Publisher is very simply the most bloated html I've ever seen. It's absolutely ghastly.
| 5:47 am on Jul 7, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Well, Robert, that's the first time I have seen a good reason why people say "Don't use Publisher". I wouldn't know bloated code from skinny, but may find myself learning, as I am about to put in a bid for EW on eBay. I suspect a complete beginner is not going to produce elegant code anyway.
| 3:00 pm on Jul 7, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Why would you buy EW from eBay when you can download a free trial good for 90 days?
| 5:08 pm on Jul 7, 2009 (gmt 0)|
Because I would want it for more than 90 days, and this is the only one on eBay that I may get a price I can afford. I looked up history too and there was nothing similar there - I don't want to miss the opportunity.
| 5:44 pm on Jul 7, 2009 (gmt 0)|
|The code from Publisher is very simply the most bloated html I've ever seen. It's absolutely ghastly. |
I've done some tests in this area. And yes, I'll agree, the bloat that is generated between traditional print based layouts and the web can be very daunting (RIP mso). But, I've also found that if you utilize the proper layout and styling commands to start with, the transition can be a lot less painful. ;)
Still, we all know Microsoft is notorious for generating code bloat between it's desktop applications and web. I would imagine that happens with most conversions, no matter what. There is a cleansing process that needs to be performed and if the original author is aware of those challenges, they can adequately prepare for and minimize the impact.
I've tested multiple document to web conversion utilities. None of them are perfect. I wouldn't use any of them either. Microsoft doesn't make it easy for us clean code fanatics. I've learned over the years to just
Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Open Notepad++, Ctrl+V, Ctrl+A, Open FrontPage, Ctrl+V and begin the reformatting in Design View (WYSIWYG), then switch to Code View, format my HTML via a right click function and off we go! It's a lot simpler than jumping through all the hoops to deal with HTML code bloat.
Most of today's Editors give you the ability to customize your workspace. With FrontPage/EWD, you have control over everything. If you don't customize your editing environment, you're going to face challenges moving forward. Few Editors are perfect out of the box. There's a lot of guessing that goes on when you start pushing buttons. With FP, if you push those buttons in the wrong sequence or do something you were not supposed to do, well, you (not you directly) deserve what happens. The software is only as good as the user. :)
| 6:22 am on Jul 9, 2009 (gmt 0)|
I'm afraid there is a lot in there that I don't understand - as I said, I know nothing at all about html or css, whatever they are and whatever the initials stand for. I didn't win the EW on eBay, so am back to the beginning again. I am a pensioner voluntarily doing the website for a non-profitmaking small club, and neither I nor the club can afford to buy EW or DW at market price, not even on eBay - so there is no point in getting a free trial when I know I can't move on the the full version if I like it. I am now thinking of NVu, which is a free download - do any of you recommend this, or any other freebie?
| 9:06 am on Jul 9, 2009 (gmt 0)|
If you're limited to free software then why don't you try the ones you've mentioned?
If you're not adept at the code though you're going to run into problems eventually. Perhaps you should look at installing a CMS instead of building a site from scratch.
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