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I want to stop using Frontpage
stooper101




msg:3673595
 1:07 am on Jun 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

When I started out, Frontpage was a good resource that got me a basic website, but lately I've gone beyond what Frontpage has been able to offer. I pretty much write my own code so that I'm satisfied with the out-put and I've been introducing javascrpit and php. The only things I actually use Frontpage for are the includes.

Basically, I am moving towards the point where I want more freedom in places like .htaccess and I don't like Frontpage spitting out less-than-good code. So my questions are:

1) I understand FP writes it's own .htaccess and in some way, blocks custom files. Right know the file looks something like:
# -FrontPage-

IndexIgnore .htaccess */.?* *~ *# */HEADER* */README* */_vti*

<Limit GET POST>
order deny,allow
deny from all
allow from all
</Limit>
<Limit PUT DELETE>
order deny,allow
deny from all
</Limit>
AuthName www.example.com
AuthUserFile /home/virtual/site67/fst/var/www/html/_vti_pvt/service.pwd
AuthGroupFile /home/virtual/site67/fst/var/www/html/_vti_pvt/service.grp

and I'd like to add something like:
AddHandler application/x-httpd-php .htm .html

Question: Once I remove FP extensions, will the AddHandler line work? Right now it don't.

2) I am pretty sure I can remove all the _vti folders. What about _private?

3) Is there anything else to be aware of other than checking any other FP features to alter/update?

[edited by: encyclo at 2:01 am (utc) on June 13, 2008]
[edit reason] switched to example.com [/edit]

 

bill




msg:3673794
 7:53 am on Jun 13, 2008 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WebmasterWorld stooper101.

FrontPage was discontinued several years ago. Maybe you might like to take a look at FP's successor, Expression Web 2.

1) I understand FP writes it's own .htaccess

No. FP has never done anything with .htaccess at all. That must be your host.

2) I am pretty sure I can remove all the _vti folders. What about _private?

The folders beginning with an underscore are only for FP. They can be deleted if you're not using FP. If you republish with FP those folders will be recreated.

jk3210




msg:3703175
 1:53 am on Jul 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

That must be your host

Yep, everytime I reinstall the Extensions, it overwrites the htaccess file with a stock version.

g1smd




msg:3703750
 7:26 pm on Jul 21, 2008 (gmt 0)

*** The only things I actually use Frontpage for are the includes. ***

But FP includes are all bass ackwards.

You have includes in your code, FP assembles the pages when you publish, and you upload all of the pages of the site every time you change some little thing with the included code parts.

Once you discover PHP includes, you never look back. With those you only need to upload the bits of the page that have changed, The server builds the pages on-the-fly.

It's a completely different way of working, and allows the site to programmatically change the page content.

hal12b




msg:3745906
 8:51 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

Expression Web 2 is decent with built-in PHP features and intellisense. Definitely get away from FrontPage. It's been 5 years since its last release.

piskie




msg:3745943
 9:57 pm on Sep 16, 2008 (gmt 0)

I recommended Dreamweaver which apart from being by far the best tool for the job, does a pretty good job of cleaning up the MS specific non compliant code. It would however require mandraulic help to eliminate the FP extensions and includes.

hal12b




msg:3746246
 12:20 pm on Sep 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

Dreamweaver is a great product too. It will take some time to learn, but well worth it.

SteveWh




msg:3746274
 1:29 pm on Sep 17, 2008 (gmt 0)

If you write your own code you don't "have to" stop using FrontPage. You can continue using it as a text editor. However, before turning off the FrontPage Extensions on your server, you must remove all the features in your site that require them. After you turn off the FPE, you'll switch to FrontPage FTP publishing rather than HTTP. There's not much practical difference between the two. It's a different setting in the publishing options dialog box.

I've been introducing javascrpit and php.

You can write JS and PHP yourself in FP, though other design programs might give you more assistance doing it.

The only things I actually use Frontpage for are the includes.

PHP includes are better, but FP includes don't require the Extensions and you can use them even after turning the FPE off. Here is a list of the things that require the FPE: [support.microsoft.com...] .

I want more freedom in places like .htaccess

It is installing the Extensions that creates the .htaccess file you listed and that makes certain .htaccess features unusable. Once you turn off the FPE, you can do anything in .htaccess you want, while still using FrontPage to edit and build your site.

and I don't like Frontpage spitting out less-than-good code.

If you stay away from the webbots that require the FPE, FP code is good HTML, and easily validated.

The following code is ok even in a site that doesn't use the FPE. You can use it as a starting point in your new .htaccess:

IndexIgnore .htaccess */.?* *~ *# */HEADER* */README* */_vti*

<Limit GET POST>
order deny,allow
deny from all
allow from all
</Limit>
<Limit PUT DELETE>
order deny,allow
deny from all
</Limit>

You won't need these lines, which allow FrontPage http publishing:

AuthName ...
AuthUserFile /home/...
AuthGroupFile /home/...

and I'd like to add something like:
AddHandler application/x-httpd-php .htm .html

Question: Once I remove FP extensions, will the AddHandler line work? Right now it don't.

There are some variations of that line, different ones for different server configurataions. Ask your host to be sure you are using the right one. I started using PHP in .htm files before turning off the FPE, and had no problems. However, I do admit that I had installed some mods to my site that allowed certain .htaccess features to work that ordinarily don't in a stock FP Extensions-enabled site. I don't remember if this was one of them.


2) I am pretty sure I can remove all the _vti folders. What about _private?

After you turn off the extensions, you can remove those, and you should remove _private. The Extensions won't be protecting it anymore. You can create a replacement private folder of your own, protected by an appropriate .htaccess file.


3) Is there anything else to be aware of other than checking any other FP features to alter/update?

See the link above for features to remove.

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