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This 36 message thread spans 2 pages: 36 ( [1] 2 > >     
How to demystify the quality score mystery?
Questions pertaining Quality Score
jivodeiga




msg:4264995
 6:31 am on Feb 10, 2011 (gmt 0)

I have perfectly organized agroups for each campaign. Even an adgroup with one keyword and a dedicated landing page for each adgroup but still there is no change for the QS for my keywords. I've had a partial success with this as 30% percent of my keywords have got QS >=5

However, I've noticed that highest the first page bid for a keyword the lower QS you are going to get even if you have the most relevant adgroup, ads, and landing page.

Is there a way I can improve QS for those keywords from 3 or 4 to 5, other then improving the quality of the ads and content on the landing pages.

It is fairly new account, so age of an adword account is a factor?

Also, should I delete the keywords having low quality score if the QS for those keywords doesn't improves over a period of time..

Thanks

 

tfanelli




msg:4265034
 8:25 am on Feb 10, 2011 (gmt 0)

Do you have a form directly on your landing page?

tfanelli




msg:4265035
 8:25 am on Feb 10, 2011 (gmt 0)

One of the items that can cause low qs is if you are attempting to get your visitor to submit personal info and you do not have a privacy statement or terms and conditions.

Eschatonic




msg:4265037
 8:30 am on Feb 10, 2011 (gmt 0)

A lower QS will make your ads more expensive, but there's no reason to ditch the keywords unless they're actually unprofitable - provided you can track conversion on the keyword level of course.

I have heard that historical CTR across your account does impact your quality score, so that might be a factor. Provided you have decent relevancy, good ad copy, and a good landing page there's no real reason why your quality score should be that low. But you do have to have those three things, so don't forget about your landing pages and ad copy (they can always be improved).

It may be worth generating a search query report and seeing if any of your keywords are matching to queries which are irrelevant or unqualified. Negativing those queries out will improve your CTR and thus your ads' QS.

jivodeiga




msg:4265062
 9:18 am on Feb 10, 2011 (gmt 0)

No there isn't any form as such. Simple landing pages. Having download button and relevant content related to the keyword group. Also, has "Privacy Policy" page

Yepp, I do agree that historical CTR does have an impact. However, as this is a new account, so not taking this into consideration.

Eschatonic: "Search Query report"? How can fetch/run this? These landing pages have been blocked for indexing through robot.txt (I hope this doesn't have any effect on QS)

Is there a tool, which would help me or should I try and use standard keyword analysis tools?

Eschatonic




msg:4265123
 12:50 pm on Feb 10, 2011 (gmt 0)

Search Query report:

In the web interface, after selecting the appropriate campaign/adgroup, you can find it under the Dimensions tab, selecting View: Search terms. You can then download that as a report by clicking the little icon (arrow pointing into a tray).

I'm not sure the Dimensions tab is there by default, so you may have to enable it.

You can see the report in the interface or you can download it for further manipulation.

eWhisper




msg:4265137
 1:47 pm on Feb 10, 2011 (gmt 0)

These landing pages have been blocked for indexing through robot.txt (I hope this doesn't have any effect on QS)


That can affect quality score depending on how you blocked the bots.

If you used a global disallow - then you are OK as adsbot-google (the bot Google uses for crawling destination URLs) ignores global disallows. If you are automatically detecting bots and adding them to the robots.txt file then you will need to make sure adsbot-google does not make its way into the file. If you are using some other method of bot blocking, it might depend on the method being employed.

jivodeiga




msg:4265221
 4:45 pm on Feb 10, 2011 (gmt 0)

Oh yes! I am aware about this, I'll check the search query report.

Ewhisper: Thanks for the feedback, yes I am using global disallow.

Rechecking all my ads, making sure they are relevant to the adgroup, which most of them are..till now

Channel01




msg:4265444
 12:30 am on Feb 11, 2011 (gmt 0)

It may be worth generating a search query report and seeing if any of your keywords are matching to queries which are irrelevant or unqualified. Negativing those queries out will improve your CTR and thus your ads' QS.


This is definitely a good suggestion for general account maintenance but it won't improve QS. Google has stated that they only judge QS based off of exact matches of the keywords that are bid on.

RhinoFish




msg:4265653
 3:27 pm on Feb 11, 2011 (gmt 0)

"historical ctr of the exact match keyword" is one aspect of qs, several others are affected by adding negs.

jivodeiga




msg:4266706
 7:25 am on Feb 14, 2011 (gmt 0)

Interestingly, there were few neg's that were affecting the CTR. Adding those to the neg's has certainly made the campaign more focused. However, I see a swing in the QS for many of keywords even though CTR is good for them.

A keyword having CTR of 4% is swinging from 3-6, presently at 4. Is it a affect of competitive bidding that is going on continuously.

jivodeiga




msg:4267277
 11:39 am on Feb 15, 2011 (gmt 0)

Well, after some observation I am noticing lot of keywords going towards lower quality score which are lesser then first page bid or are slightly more then the first page bid due to competition.

Historically my CTR hasn't dropped from 2.2%, which I guess is good.

I guess I will concentrate again to improve ads and keywords positioning on the landing page until I get some new fresh ideas.

LucidSW




msg:4267500
 6:53 pm on Feb 15, 2011 (gmt 0)

> Historically my CTR hasn't dropped from 2.2%, which I guess is good.

Well no, it's not good if your QS is only 4 (but you may have meant at least it's not going down). The largest component of QS is a calculation of your CTR compared to the historical average (exact match as Rhino pointed out). So you are below average. Note that position is taken into account too.

> keywords positioning on the landing page

Are your keywords showing as being relevant? If so, no need to change your landing page. You need to concentrate on improving ads to get higher click rates.

jivodeiga




msg:4267532
 7:44 pm on Feb 15, 2011 (gmt 0)

>Are your keywords showing as being relevant?

I haven't stuffed any keyword to the page, each keyword appears appropriately on the page. However, most of the keywords are in META as well..I hope this should be enough for the relevancy.

Yes, I agree with you that I need to make my ads more appropriate and click worthy...

Also, I am testing with 2 ads in each ad group. However, whenever I create ads, I get confused, whether to create appealing ads or the ads having keyword terms.

RhinoFish




msg:4267947
 2:32 pm on Feb 16, 2011 (gmt 0)

strictly speaking. "appealing" ads don't include focused relevance.

to explain what i mean, i'm taking an extreme example here... so i'm searching for hotels in Jamaica and someone runs a product image ad with girls in bikinis on the beach in Jamaica, hotel shown in background... appealing, but not focused.

i try to show in my ad, that i have EXACTLY what the searcher is looking for. further, i tailor the keywords, positive and negative, so i know that ad only shows to the right searches.

i would argue that to be relevant, there must be some "searched for" words in your ad text, it's very difficult to be relevant without some word overlap. plus, things are bolded in your ad when there's overlap, and bold gets attention, which raises ctr.

think of a "search" as a problem that someone has, write an ad that shows you understand the problem, and proposes that you have a good solution.

Pristine Jamaica Hotel
Private World-Class Beachfront!
Serene, Clean - Beach, Pool & Spa.
jamaicahotel.com/Private-Beach

jivodeiga




msg:4268329
 7:58 am on Feb 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

Sounds right Rhino...

Now after all the hard work and having QS for all major keywords, I am getting outbid as I am not bidding that aggressively..

Everyday lot of keywords become ineligible as they are below the first page bid.

Is manual bidding the best method or Auto?

Robert Charlton




msg:4268332
 8:47 am on Feb 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

That can affect quality score depending on how you blocked the bots.

How would adsbot-google be affected by the meta robots tag...

<meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow">

...with no robots.txt exclusion at all?

jivodeiga




msg:4268349
 9:58 am on Feb 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

Google has clearly suggested that any disallow in robots.txt which is having blanket exclusions will be ignored.

So, meta name having global/generic parameters, would not be able to block adsbot until it has been specified exactly in the meta name.

LucidSW




msg:4268416
 2:25 pm on Feb 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

> Google has clearly suggested that any disallow in robots.txt which is having blanket exclusions will be ignored.

Never heard that but it makes sense for Adwords. The system NEEDS to read your pages for relevancy purposes. Would not make sense it obeyed any disallows.

> Is manual bidding the best method or Auto?

I prefer manual myself as I have control. With Auto bidding, the system will happily place a bid to get you to the top position. If you don't mind paying top dollar and want to be on top, no problem. But I'd try to get my QS to at least 8 first. I wouldn't autobid with an average QS, just a waste of money.

RhinoFish




msg:4268428
 2:59 pm on Feb 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

by 'Auto bidding', do you mean this setting?
"Automatic bidding to try to maximize clicks for your target budget"

i ask to clarify the difference between automatic control via target or max cpa, enhanced auto assist from conversion data, and the choice i listed above...

if you're aiming for ROI / ROAS goals, good gawd man, don't use "Automatic bidding to try to maximize clicks for your target budget", the translation for this setting is...
try hard to spend all of my money, i don't care about converting

if you're doing a branding campaign, and you've got very deep pockets, there are times when it might make sense - otherwise, it's the ROI marketer's plague.

jivodeiga




msg:4268556
 6:32 pm on Feb 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

LucidSW, you can read the information here. [bit.ly ].

Also, I like your idea to attain higher QS and set them to Auto.

I am using manual bidding now. However, started with Auto "Automatic bidding to try maximize clicks for your target budget", and it although gave top position but no conversion happened and wasted money on that.

Even though with manual bidding, conversions aren't happening but there is a control on spending.

The reason why I asked the question earlier because this controlled spending is making ads appear in low positions, which in turn gives impressions with no clicks and lesser CTR.

Now, I am sorting all keywords which have lower ad positions and bidding high on them to gain top ad position also making sure those keywords are having QS >=4. Keywords with QS <=3 have been left out..

Is there any other strategy that works while bidding manually?

LucidSW




msg:4268662
 8:51 pm on Feb 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

Hey thanks jivodeiga. Not matter how long I do this, there's always something new or something I didn't know. This might explain a client a year ago always getting poor relevancy: they may have been telling the bot not to visit.

> Now, I am sorting all keywords which have lower ad positions and bidding high on them to gain top ad position also making sure those keywords are having QS >=4.

As I mentioned, I would not do this until your QS was 7 or more. You do want the top positions but not if it doubles your costs which a QS of 4 will likely do, whether you bid manually or not. Get that QS up first, even if near the bottom of the first page.

Channel01




msg:4268737
 11:26 pm on Feb 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

Hey jivodeiga, you may already know this but Google factors in what the average rank is for your ads when determining QS from CTR. Therefore, you don't necessarily need to rank high to improve QS from better CTR. It's just a matter of having a better CTR for the spot you're at compared to what other ads would achieve at that exact same rank.

jivodeiga




msg:4268845
 6:13 am on Feb 18, 2011 (gmt 0)

As I mentioned, I would not do this until your QS was 7 or more. You do want the top positions but not if it doubles your costs which a QS of 4 will likely do, whether you bid manually or not. Get that QS up first, even if near the bottom of the first page.

Yes, this has been the intention from the beginning when I started ad-words. However, after trying so hard on creating those ad-groups, figuring out the correct keywords, ads and then creating landing pages for each ad group. I have had partial success, few keywords got high quality score immediately and rest were either 4 or lower. “So, I thought that could be the end of the road, these are highly competitive keywords and I need to improve CTR for these to get higher QS”

Which, as per “Channel01”
Therefore, you don't necessarily need to rank high to improve QS from better CTR. It's just a matter of having a better CTR for the spot you're at compared to what other ads would achieve at that exact same rank.

THEREFORE, I am back to where I started :)

I ALSO

put a default-bidding amount ($0.5) for each ad group, which could be lesser for a keywords first page bid, would that be affecting?

If I can understand more on landing page quality or creation criteria, it will help me improve QS for my keywords or what should be the idea behind creating a perfect landing page?

LucidSW




msg:4269189
 7:53 pm on Feb 18, 2011 (gmt 0)

> Yes, this has been the intention from the beginning

I know it's hard, especially when things are not going your way and you try all sorts of different things in desperation. But follow your original intentions.

Bids and QS are not related. The only thing increasing the bid does is increase your position (ads are ranked by multiplying bid and QS). Your QS doesn't change if you keep the same ads. You will move up the page and so will your cost. But if your QS increases, you will move up with the same bid and your cost will be the same or sometimes lower.

Landing page quality is only an on-off switch. If you comply with all guidelines, you're good. If not, your QS goes down to 1. That is not your problem.

You mentioned earlier your keyword relevancy is good. That does not appear to be your problem. So don't concentrate on making changes to your pages. It won't help any. You either are relevant or you're not. There's no in-between. It represents about 25% of QS.

What's left is getting more people clicking your ads. That won't happen by sticking to the ads you have now. Maybe you should call in the troops and have someone look at your campaign. A fresh perspective by a pro on the may be all you need.

jivodeiga




msg:4269988
 6:19 am on Feb 21, 2011 (gmt 0)

There were some keywords whom I ignored due to low quality score has problem with page relevancy.

So, need to improve those pages. Also, need to make more attractive ads. Let's see how it goes...

jivodeiga




msg:4281354
 12:51 pm on Mar 14, 2011 (gmt 0)

As I mentioned, I would not do this until your QS was 7 or more.


During these days, I have been working hard on the keywords with higher QS primarily 6 and above and I must say I have been getting better results with this approach.

However, I am slightly confused with the keywords having QS <=4. Should I set them to the first page bid or pause them?

netmeg




msg:4283080
 4:14 pm on Mar 17, 2011 (gmt 0)

Me, I take those, separate them out into their own ad group or campaign, and start writing new really really really REALLY targeted ads for them.

DanAbbamont




msg:4292846
 3:52 am on Apr 6, 2011 (gmt 0)

The stuff that determines if your landing page, ads and keywords are "relevant" isn't all that sophisticated. Check out the official guidelines and suggestions and if you've made use of all of that info, you're probably good as far as that goes. Check out your competitors. If yours looks as "relevant" as theirs, it's probably just the nature of your niche and everyone is in the same boat.

What it sounds like is you're trying to build up a profitable campaign and expecting results too quickly. You want to spend a lot up front on split testing using ROI as your primary metric. You might find that out of two different ads, one with a lower quality score converts while one with a higher score doesn't. If you waste your time just trying to figure out what will give you the highest QS without extensively measuring results you'll lose out.

Now the most important part of developing your QS is having a good CTR. The more positive data Google has the better. You can keep bids low and build it, but this could end up taking a really long time. I've never done a campaign where I didn't just bid up to #1 at first. That way within a short period of time, you've collected enough data to see what your best ads / keywords / landing pages are so you can do some pruning. Then I'll let it operate in the red and watch the CTR data help the CPC drop and even out. After all that is settled, you can determine whether or not you're going to continue your campaign and if you do, you barely have to work on it other than routine maintenance.

muejl1




msg:4323000
 3:58 pm on Jun 7, 2011 (gmt 0)

Does your quality score drop if you have a form on your landing page?

This 36 message thread spans 2 pages: 36 ( [1] 2 > >
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