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This 61 message thread spans 3 pages: 61 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Google is Stupid - AdWords Continues to Lose Good Customers
arizonadude




msg:4159370
 5:41 pm on Jun 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Well, I got the final notice email today even though I never got a 1st one, but that is besides the point.

I've had my Google account since 2003 and have ran ads for brick and mortar business as well as affiliate sites. All my affiliates sites are original content that actually are helpful to the visitor.

So, the email lists sites that I no longer run ads to and haven't for a long time but they want me to fix the landing pages to those sites even though I don't run ads to them to comply with their landing page quality score.

Are you kidding me? If I'm not running an ad to the page and not landing anybody to it with Adwords, why the hell do I need to comply with the LPQ score?

I actually started putting my ad dollars elsewhere a while back and went from spending over several hundred a day to less than 10 so losing the account is no big deal but the arrogance that they display is just truly astounding.

I know of another person they cancelled the account for a site he spent less than 2 dollars worth of ads for over 3 years ago and actually did not renew the domain several years ago. According to the brains at Google that does not matter, unless he can change that landing page even though the domain is free to anyone to register, he's out. Again, are you kidding me Google.

The arrogance that comes out of the Plex is really leaving a stench among many people.

It's funny, I used to be a loyal Google follower now I root for the day their stock tanks and they completely implode because the brainiacs in the plex are simply put too smart for their own good.

 

tedster




msg:4159489
 8:27 pm on Jun 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

It sounds like there are some major wires crossed on the Adwords back end, doesn't it? I work with a couple accounts that fall into the same categories. Hope I don't get the same notice!

arizonadude




msg:4159505
 8:41 pm on Jun 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

From what I gather, if you have EVER IN THE ENTIRE HISOTRY of the account had a quality score of 1/10 and there ANY affiliate ads on the site, then it's just a matter of time before you do.

I thought I was safe, after all I've had the account with them since the beginning, but nope does not matter.

They haven't cancelled me yet but I'm sure that's just around the corner since I'm not going to change sites that I don't even run ads to anymore.

They really have lost all sense of reality in the Plex.

wyweb




msg:4159517
 8:57 pm on Jun 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

I don't think it's so much arrogance as it is mechanized reviews. Arrogance requires an actual human being to be on the other end and much of what google does is not orchestrated by a live person, but by a set of algorithms. Mathematical rules have neither the time, nor the inclination to exhibit arrogance in their functions.

You don't like it and apparently you've moved on. I'd say you're better off.

Staffa




msg:4159530
 9:17 pm on Jun 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Mathematical rules have neither the time, nor the inclination to exhibit arrogance in their functions.

Correct, but those who write these algorithms have.

wyweb




msg:4159537
 9:31 pm on Jun 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

Correct, but those who write these algorithms have.

And I'm sure that's what they do.. sit around all day and think up ways to be more arrogant...

Jesus.. c'mon....

email lists sites that I no longer run ads to and haven't for a long time but they want me to fix the landing pages to those sites

No live, arrogant person reviewed that or this would never have been an issue to begin with. You got caught up in an algo that was either, 1) outdated or 2) not monitored or 3) friggin' obsolete. The simple fact that you weren't running ads on those sites should have immediately removed you from any list you might have been placed on.

I'm not seeing arrogance here - I'm seeing incompetence. On googles part.

arizonadude




msg:4159581
 10:34 pm on Jun 25, 2010 (gmt 0)

I'm not seeing arrogance here - I'm seeing incompetence. On googles part.


It's actually both.

Because when you do reply to them that you’re no longer running the ads, it does not matter, they will terminate anyway even after some rep who is siting in India reads it.

It happened to that person who had let the website go. He actually got to a real person and went back and forth and was basically told unless he can correct the LPQ on a domain he no longer owns or runs ads for, he was out and out he went.

I think that's a little bit of arrogance mixed in the incompetence.

I don't have to time to play around with them so I just responded that I no longer run those ads and I fully expect them to terminate the account which is their right to do and I really don't give a hoot because I can get along just fine without Google Adwords. Over the course of my account I've spent well over half a million bucks with them and if they don't want any more of my money, there are others that do.

The thing about being the top dog is you can only stay the top dog for so long before something comes along and knocks you off your lofty perch. Google can not remain dominate forever and I for one will smile big when they topple.

I just wanted to post so others who might be relying on Google Adwords for their company’s future should be ready for the same treatment and not put all their eggs in Adwords.

tangor




msg:4159688
 5:03 am on Jun 26, 2010 (gmt 0)

@arizonadude... I see it just a twinky-dink different than you do. This probably automated email from the gorg is a BEG that you keep on doing biz with them as they have noticed YOU AIN'T doing biz with them anymore. A DESPERATE ATTEMPT to get your dollars flowing once again (and that beg being sadly engineered by brainiacs without a clue).

2010 is the year the gorg melts down, even though the biz plan still works (sorta) as long as they can take the hits for privacy issues, monopoly, streetview, and their slightly sinister scraping of websites for their ads in the serps continues.

Adwords had half a chance of being an ad market, but it futzed out too many ways, too many times, and HURT those who participated that only chuckles should be sent in reply to the gorg demands that dead sites correct their landing pages.

Aside: If you think about it, gorg lives in the PAST of all their data collected. Their cached sites. Their refusal to honor 404, 410... X-Robots and all that other stuff we try to tell them to give only CURRENT and FRESH results...

Rather than argue, just send: "I liked the old Google." and let it go at that. Sooner---rather than later---the gorg will collapse upon its immense collection of OUT DATED AND NO LONGER IN SERVICE data.

One reason I'm courting Bing and Yahoo these days. But that's a different conversation.

Green_Grass




msg:4159695
 5:42 am on Jun 26, 2010 (gmt 0)

They have in the past told me to remove all affiliate links and every ad on the landing page if I wanted to continue using adWords on a landing page. I asked them.. what do I then need adWords for? What kind of a conversion can I look forward to? Why Don't I just donate the money to you guys..huh.. idiots.. or nincompoops.. or people with zero initiative on the LPQ review teams..

I am down to hardly spending anything on adwords these days. They seem to think they have an unlimited potential supply of advertisers. If that is not arrogance..it is very poor business practice.

gn_wendy




msg:4160575
 11:25 am on Jun 28, 2010 (gmt 0)

one of the companies I am involved with have been contacted by the AdWords team... three times in two weeks - from different ppl at google - about increasing ad spend.

As long as ad spend goes up by 30000% they would do all the work. (no 30000% is not a typo) .. current spend is very low because 1)it's off season, 2)the product doesn't convert well and 3)the search terms have very little traffic.

Why would they contact the same person at the same company three times? Once I get. Doesn't hurt to call and offer a new service (even though they would've known not to call if they would've even looked at the site). But three times? Don't they have a CRM of some kind at the plex?

bwnbwn




msg:4160692
 2:23 pm on Jun 28, 2010 (gmt 0)

arizonadude quick question. Were the ads in question disableded or deleted in the account?

arizonadude




msg:4160698
 2:33 pm on Jun 28, 2010 (gmt 0)

arizonadude quick question. Were the ads in question disableded or deleted in the account?


Many of the sites listed were ads that were no longer running and actually deleted over a year ago, yet they want me to the fix the LPQ for those sites... Ya, sure I will Google.

bwnbwn




msg:4160814
 5:37 pm on Jun 28, 2010 (gmt 0)

Now that really is dumb because the only way you can keep from getting the message you got was to delete the ads and this "suppose" to remove the ad from within your account.

I assume there is a bug and their system is sill showing the deleted ad in your campaign. I wonder just how many other people with deleted ads are getting the same mesage that they have no way of fixing.

arizonadude




msg:4160929
 8:41 pm on Jun 28, 2010 (gmt 0)

They don't care whether or not you delete the ads. They want you to conform the web to their views and what they think should be on the web. Here is a snip from the email:
Pausing or deleting an ad or ad group that advertises a site will not affect or improve the site's landing page quality. The only way to improve poor landing page quality is to correct the site according to our Landing Page and Site Quality Guidelines; after you have done this, please contact Google AdWords support by replying to this email so that we can re-evaluate
your site's landing page quality.

smallcompany




msg:4160946
 9:02 pm on Jun 28, 2010 (gmt 0)

They haven't cancelled me yet but I'm sure that's just around the corner since I'm not going to change sites that I don't even run ads to anymore.

I believe they count strikes (when your site suddenly receives 1/10 for all keywords) per account. Also, I believe there is an expiration period on each strike which is one year. This means if you do not fix your site, and you don't get your account suspended/terminated, your account may come out with zero strikes in its portfolio at some point.

Many of the sites listed were ads that were no longer running and actually deleted over a year ago, yet they want me to the fix the LPQ for those sites...

Per my knowledge, deleted ads should not count, but paused and active only. Anyway, if your account is not suspended or terminated, and if you have sites that actually sell something and have nothing with affiliate attribute in them, you should still be good to go.

In overall, it looks to me that no affiliate site can satisfy Google, unless it offers something that starts and ends on that same site.
For example, you sell notebooks and then you offer software through affiliate programs.
If you just offer software, forget it.

I had few sites, some micro, and a big one (still have them). They all got slapped as bridge pages. The big one has a lot of content, real surveys with real results, help articles that I wrote myself - and it's still considered as a bridge page.

There are rare occasions when a site built for making money through affiliate program can survive. A forum can I believe.

It looks like affiliate sites are part of the past in AdWords.

P.S.
And yeah, why would anyone run ads on AdWords if there is no conversion. The whole point of affiliate business is to catch traffic and send it to the merchant for conversion.
I participated in quite a few TM related activities, and many merchants still want to run it. Some banned it and now reopened it. This means a sole merchant cannot recover all the sales from paid search space - when you compare "with affiliates" vs. "without affiliates"
All this crap (1/10) has caused merchants start calling their contacts at AdWords to ask why certain affiliates got their sites slapped. Certainly, the answers were limited. Plus, a regular contact from AdWords cannot do much as they don't have the all information that policy team (aka secret service) keeps for themselves only.
But... that's Google's choice. I wish them all the best and I'm thankful for the time when I was able to make nice money there. If they really made a mistake with this run after affiliates and inability to distinguish between a real bridge page and a site that actually has something to offer, they'll pay their price for it, too.
Will they really?
Don't know?
They adjusted the algorithm long ago so they can always squeeze out the price per click they want. That's why we pay $0.75 or even $$1.50 per click although there are no ads but our own there.
IMO, the only thing that could bring more order into this system is more transparency. As it is now, they can get away with whatever they want. Can you imagine how many clicks happens every day that should not be charged to our accounts?

Sgt_Kickaxe




msg:4161042
 1:33 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

The email lists sites, yet we can NEVER remove a site from our account. Even "deleted" doesn't mean deleted. Adwords has issues.

edit: You mentioned your sites are established and of decent quality but that must not be true. Google doesn't want you to rank well naturally and now they don't want you to pay your way into the infamous top 3 results of every page. Google can't be wrong, about anything, ask them.

How times have changed.

globglob77




msg:4161047
 2:02 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

They just don't want to work with affiliate sites anymore. They want to cut the middleman out.

albo




msg:4161067
 3:41 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

I've been a WW participant for lo these many years, but more as a "watcher", not in the "big pro" league. I must admit after all this time, I'm not accustomed to seeing so much GOOG questioning. Ah well, as @Sgt_Kickaxe says, "How times have changed."

I am led to wonder whether GOOG listens carefully to WW. I should think they would, as WW members should represent a substantial source of GOOG revenues, no?

"Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." - Napoleon

maximillianos




msg:4161071
 3:58 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

I should think they would, as WW members should represent a substantial source of GOOG revenues, no?


I would guess the opposite. I think the collective membership of this site probably relates to less than 1% of G's revenues.

That said, having 10-15 upset webmasters per any given thread is not going to change the tide over at G. They see data we are not privy to. They know when their changes are working and when they are not working.

We are not their main user base unfortunately. The gazillion non-webmaster folks are.

yaix2




msg:4161076
 4:28 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

They are surely not stupid and are just optimizing by kicking potential middlemen out. Your case is probably just "collateral damage". But I am sure the whole thing will give G some 0.0x% improvement in the upcoming balance sheet.

techrealm




msg:4161106
 5:58 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

While I have long since stopped using Adwords, when I did spend plenty of money with them I was often ignored when these weird issues popped up. Rather than get frustrated anymore, I chose my response to be what I do with carbon based issues. Much like things being "forgotten" to prevent being more of what they wanted to happen anyway, I consider being ignored to be a valid, complete and final answer. I make the necessary arrangements and move on with my life enriched by the experience and non the worse off.

g1smd




msg:4161130
 7:40 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

It's interesting that Google puts so much effort into this, and yet continues to let the flood of ads for fake and counterfeit goods continue.

For one class of often-faked product, they are showing ads relating to more than 10 000 domains selling Chinese-made counterfeits.

These are high-end products and the fake sites are trying to pass off fake goods as if they are the real thing. With Google accepting these ads and displaying them widely, the counterfeiters are cashing in. The fake sites almost always infringe trademark law, and are using the names of real companies as a part of the domain name.

Some estimates put the counterfeiters' earnings at 5 to 10 million dollars per week. Others at almost that amount per day.

It is totally obvious this stuff is fake, and yet Google seemingly takes no action on this at all. This scam has been running for years; yet Google is happy to take vast amounts of money from the criminals.

Sgt_Kickaxe




msg:4161139
 7:53 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

I should think they would, as WW members should represent a substantial source of GOOG revenues, no?


No, they won't treat any particular group of people any differently. If anything they monitor the forums, and other sites, to see if we've figured out something that works to game Google with but that's it. They have metrics in place that tell them what's hot, how many visits is normal, etc...etc. They see problems and anomalies before others do unless a site happens to work within the rules but is getting abnormally high rankings/visitors, then they try and find a way to stop that from happening.

In the end it's a lot of people in a room who are trained to find spam and remove it. The quality of the index reflects upon this group but they are only doing as instructed so it ultimately reflects on Google. That group doesn't visit this, or any other site, every day.

They have nothing to do with adwords.

I personally HATE seeing the top 3 results of any search be ads, it doesn't belong ahead of results and shouldn't mimic the appearance of results, and for that reason alone I will take my spend elsewhere. I'm pretty jazzed about the yahoo/bing ad platform changes, competition should heat up.

MrFewkes




msg:4161177
 9:01 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

"They just don't want to work with affiliate sites anymore. They want to cut the middleman out."

Whats interesting is that google dont own the internet - we do. It would be very easy for the masses to get shut of google - but we dont believe we can.

We are indeed wimps and fanboys.

J_RaD




msg:4161227
 11:59 am on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

wow its nice to see other people burned by goog. I've kicked the idea around of opening up another adwords account on the down low knowing full and well it will be terminated but some how i just can't stomach giving those ******* any more money, even if it made me more money.

I spend my cash with bing and yahoo now, they are a whole lot nicer to deal with, and I feel every dollar i spend with them is a dollar they can use to kill goog. That makes me smile.

J_RaD




msg:4161231
 12:03 pm on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)


Whats interesting is that google dont own the internet - we do. It would be very easy for the masses to get shut of google - but we dont believe we can.

We are indeed wimps and fanboys.

truth, but if you think about it if you own the traffic you own the internet and you can shape it anyway you see fit. So yea this is kind of like an internet take over by goog.

webmasters don't want to unplug 80% of the webs traffic so they have no choice but to keep feeding the monster, but the more you feed the monster the more it looks at you as the food.

I've said it before but supporting goog is funding your own demise.

I can only hope once bing and yahoo start taking some much needed %'s away from goog the playing field will be leveled and it won't be so scary to flat out block goo

JerryOdom




msg:4161279
 12:59 pm on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

Who has a better product than Google? Google got popular when everyone talked about their quality. Back then everyone hated on Yahoo and praised Google. I don't read the forums every day but when I do I don't catch people talking about something better.

J_RaD




msg:4161300
 1:13 pm on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

something better?

bing.com

wheel




msg:4161302
 1:16 pm on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

They just don't want to work with affiliate sites anymore. They want to cut the middleman out.

This is one of the things I find the most troubling about Google. In fact, I find it deeply wrong.

In terms of the OP, I'm sure Google doesn't care. There's lots of people spending 6 and 7 figures per month. I'm sure that the ones giving them trouble are the ones spending 10K a month, and they're likely just as happy to get rid of them, even with some collateral damage, than risk screwing up the works for their big customers.

Twice in the past five years I've made specific efforts to clean up problem clients. One time I raised prices. Got rid of all the whiners, and probably some good clients too. It was well worth it. Last time, I exited an entire business line. It made money, but a percentage of the clients chewed up 1/3 of my day with nonsense. Easiest answer, get rid of everyone and free up a 1/3 of my day.

arizonadude




msg:4161372
 3:15 pm on Jun 29, 2010 (gmt 0)

Per my knowledge, deleted ads should not count, but paused and active only.


You would be wrong other wise they would not of listed sites that were deleted over a year ago and also that same person who let the domain go years ago was told to fix it even though he no longer owns the domain and hadn't ran ads for it for 3 years.

So, it would be safe to assume that they look at the history of the account and count it.

Also, if they don't want affiliate ads, they just need to come right and say we don't want affiliates.

This 61 message thread spans 3 pages: 61 ( [1] 2 3 > >
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